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  1. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    So some of the more extreme Christians would say that the papacy - and maybe the whole Vatican as an institution - continuously represents an aspect of the anti-Christ?
     
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  2. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof, but is that Antichrist, the man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself, in the church, against Christ and all that is called God” (art. 25.6).[Followed by The Savoy Declaration (1658), art. 26 and The London Baptist Confession of Faith (1689), art. 26]
     
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  3. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    Thus the Lutheran Book of Concord states, “[T]he pope is the real Antichrist who has raised himself over and set himself against Christ . . . Accordingly, just as we cannot adore the devil himself as our lord or God, so we cannot suffer his apostle, the pope or Antichrist, to govern us as our head or lord” (Smalcald Articles 2:4:10, 14).
     
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  4. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    @Mr. McMarty when the time of miracles is past, it is only the faithless that are to blame. There have personal miracles in my own life, and many others (hundreds) have witnessed to me of miracles in their own. All attributed solely to God's power and all glorify His name for that manifestation. That's how I determine what's a miracle - anything outside the power of man to accomplish.

    @Hros by all means discuss the founder of The Church of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith, Jr. all you like. Let's take it into a separate thread, though.
     
  5. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    So do LDS see miracles as proof of being chosen by God?
     
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  6. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    @Hros I can't speak for an entire religion, per se. What I can say is that when a miracle is experienced and recognized, it is a powerful confirmation of faith. It is a reminder that God knows us each as individuals and is cognizant of our struggles and loves us despite the circumstances of our fallen world.


    if you're speaking about a miracle 'performed' by God through someone else, as in through the blessing or cursing of a prophet, then maybe the answer is yes. Like, the Israelites took much stock in the miracle by Joshua after Moses was gone. Same as many miracles that attended the founding of my Church :)
     
  7. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Okay, thanks. But how would you know a miracle comes from God or a Godly source, and not some sort of otherworldly force (witchcraft, etc)?
     
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  8. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    @Hros, well Jesus addressed some of that in his teaching. He said that a house divided cannot stand. An evil spirit is not cast out by the power of the devil, but only by the power of God.

    Accordingly, good things are accomplished by God. Simply put, things that lead people to Jesus are good. In this life, Christians are taught to "try the spirits". 1 John 4 helps instruct us, among other things like Jesus often saying "judge ye" or asking which example in a parable was the neighbor.
     
  9. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    @vxlccm - Well, this is pretty much where we differ:
    Even prophets cannot prove themselves as messengers of God with miracles, simply because they may be using other forces, even if they mean well.
    @Mr. McMarty - we don't say there aren't miracles today - there are, but they're less clear, in a form called "Hester" in Hebrew, meaning - in disguise. So no re-splitting of the sea and stuff like that. But going back to where I started from - the founding of the State of Israel is considered an enormous miracle.
     
  10. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    God is as able to do miracles today as in any other age. God is an unchangeable being and will provide miracles to accomplish His purposes today just as before. If God needs to rescue Israelis as promised people, then a nuclear forcefield may appear over Jerusalem, or maybe the waters of the Red Sea will be parted for a mass exodus. Have faith, brother.
     
  11. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Oh, I'm not saying God can't do miracles as He used to. However, circumstances in our world have changed. A good parable to this would be to imagine a lit lamp: it's constantly giving off bright light and lighting the room. If we were to cover the lamp - it would still be giving off a bright light constantly - yet the room would be shrouded in darkness. The lamp didn't change - but something is blocking the light.
     
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  12. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    Yes, the thing blocking the light is the faith of people, @Hros.

    It isn't blocked for me, at least not much. I've seen what I've seen and cannot deny and must worship the Most High God for all His goodness.
     
  13. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    You say faith, I say it's more complicated than that, but we'll leave it at that.
     
  14. hillmountain

    hillmountain Fapstronaut

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    Faith is not blind.....

    Faith is not without evidence......

    There is strong evidence that the resurrection of Jesus really happened......

    There is strong evidence that God really exists... (See The cosmological argument, the argument from contingency etc popularized by William Craig......

    So Christianity has good grounds for believing in Jesus as the son of God....

    However, can the same be said for other religions?

    Blind Faith is very dangerous.......

    See the history of Jim Jones... He claimed to be divine, and many people believed him blindly .... In the end, hundreds of his brainwashed believers ended up committing suicide at his instigation....

    No other religion had the strong evidence for truth that Christianity has....

    All other religions are either a result of accumulated customs over the centuries(like Hinduism, taoism) or the result of some charismatic fraudster's trickery (Mohammed, many others) or can be explained away by some natural cause, not supernatural like they claim
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 11:21 AM
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  15. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    Nice train of thought, @hillmountain. Yes, Jesus came here to save us all and presented himself as physical evidence so we would worship the Father, doing good works and commending us to the same. My statements about other religions is just to acknowledge that many do not have an opportunity to know Jesus; those that do definitely should choose to exercise faith. Faith is not blind, but sees beyond the flawed physical world.
     
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  16. hillmountain

    hillmountain Fapstronaut

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    Very well said brother.... No one is blaming innocent people who happen to be born in false religions.... Jesus loves them and will gather them to himself, even if they didn't have the opportunity to know him
     
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  17. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys,
    I was learning something with a friend of mine, which led to us talking about what different religions think about heaven.
    So I was wondering what Christians think about heaven:
    Do you think of it as a literal Garden of Eden - some kind of physical paradise (you know - green grass, blue skies, etc), or as some sort of spiritual existence?
     
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  18. Mr. McMarty

    Mr. McMarty Fapstronaut

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  19. Mr. McMarty

    Mr. McMarty Fapstronaut

    I expect a perfect earth and cosmos, Garden would have ment kingdom to ancient peoples so i never think of the jungle in picture books like the garden of eden.
     
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  20. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Oh, maybe I didn't explain well enough. I was talking about the place where good people go when they die, not what'll happen to good people after the end of days (what we'd call "the next world").
     
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