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Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Error: DefectiveChickUnit, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Dearly befappened,

    I am gathered here today to mourn my past-self's permissive blindness, and to seek answers on where to go from here. I've only been lurking for a day or two, and while I've learned a lot, The Talk is coming up and I remain unprepared.

    My husband was raised with some deeply disturbing norms about relationships. I've had to backspace countless examples and elaborations because this turned into a serious rant, but suffice it to say his idea of "normal" has proven to be very, very different from mine over the years. Repeatedly. Over. And over. And over.

    I don't even know where to reasonably start to explain without turning this post into a very confusing vent, but I'm just so so tired of being alone in this. So I guess all I'm saying for now is: hi. It sucks to meet you all, but thank you for being here. Your posts really help.
     
    m_brando and PornTSD like this.
  2. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    Welcome to the forum. If you've been lurking then many of the things that I've told others I'll repeat to you. I'm sorry you have to deal with this crap. It is not fair that you have to instigate change instead of your husband. You mentioned that you are preparing for 'The Talk'. Here is a worksheet to help you prepare for your intervention.

    I intentionally use the work intervention because addicts live in a world of delusion and don't register the seriousness of the damage they cause to those around them. It is a component of the illness that allows them to continue their behavior even though it is harmful and destructive.

    It sounds like many of his problems predate your relationship. How we were raised plays a big part of how we became addicted. The emotional stew we grew up in is the breeding ground for addiction. Like many of us who grew up in a dysfunctional family setting we learn to cope in unhealthy ways. In order for your relationship to heal a lot of things need to change. Removal of the porn addiction is only part of the solution. It sounds like he needs professional help to learn how to deal with stress in healthy ways. These are foundation things on which to fix your relationship. Trust and intimacy cannot be restored if he continues his addiction and still has the underlying factors that made him addicted in the first place. There is no excuse for his behavior, but he will have to address all kinds of things he's been avoiding his whole life if he wants to get better.

    You've seen me say it to others, but you need to hear it too. This is not your fault. It is not fair that it falls on you to start this process. You did not make his problem worse. You are enough for any man. You are better than any of the women in his fantasy world. You deserve to be treated better.

    So, prepare yourself for the talk. Explain what your boundaries and expectations are going to be. Lay out the consequences. Explain that the status quo is no longer acceptable. Tell him how it makes you feel. Do not allow him to shift blame, minimize, gaslight, or justify his behavior. Write out a letter and give it to him in case the conversation goes south in a hurry.

    I hope you get the advice, information, and support that you need to move forward and make you family whole again.
     
  3. Thank you for the welcome, and for all the time and thought you put into your posts to me and others.

    It's reassuring to see that someone who has been (at least partly) in the frame of mind my husband is in now, can come to speak with such a level of insight into, and empathy for, how the SO experiences things. I hope my husband experiences that level of awareness someday.

    While I of course hope for the best, unfortunately I don't believe that kind of transformation to be in the cards for him. There's really no foundation left to build on, as far as I can determine. I appreciate your communication tips, and will continue to try to use them as I have been for a long time. But I'm beginning to think there's nothing I can say without using "the wrong tone" or with "the wrong look on my face" that won't make him panic, yell, and shut down. At ANY conversation. He thinks he's an idiot, sees conversations as intellectual "competitions" he's out of his depth in, and automatically throws up any defensive wall he can get his hands on, from irrational accusations to subject changes that make no sense, to simply storming off or turning on a game and ignoring me. From excessive video games to tv to P to drinking, his entire life is geared around extreme avoidance of any thought. I know that means he's hurting. I also know it means he'll continue to hurt no matter what I do.

    I may be here more to come to terms with the idea that it's okay for me to not be okay with this, that I'm not insane, that the countless issues we've experienced over a decade together are not all simply a matter of "it's a guy thing" and "it's in the past, get over it" when the behaviors forever continue to resurface in slightly varying ways, and that leaving might be a valid choice at this point.
     
    m_brando likes this.
  4. fuzzywaz

    fuzzywaz Fapstronaut

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    Wow...this was my partner for about the first 5-7 years of our relationship. I often wonder how or why I stuck around. but I did and I am actually glad for it now. How was your SO's upbringing? My SO was raised in home with a covert narcissistic mom and a mostly absentee dad. His mom is extremely emotionally manipulative and lives in her own version of reality. She would use guilt and shame to control her children and had "roles" for them as oppose to seeing them as who they were. He could NOT handle any sort of confrontation or criticism for years and would react pretty much how you describe your hubby. Lot's of counselling over the years and coming to terms with his childhood has helped. The whole PMO thing coming out in the last year and him actually realizing and admitting that it is an addictive, self soothing behaviour that is holding him back from being a whole, happy person, has been another turning point. It really seems like it is tying up all the loose ends that remained even after he did counselling and anger management, etc.
    I am just curious with the way you describe your husband's behaviour if he had some similar childhood trauma?
     
  5. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    I understand how communicating to an addict is a minefield, especially when they are not in the frame of mind to admit any wrongs. I did that for many years. But there are windows of opportunity that arise where the addict realizes that something is wrong. That window can last a few hours or a few days before disappearing again. There is no way of knowing when that window is open, which is why I suggested writing a letter.

    A letter is physical and tangible evidence that something is wrong and cannot be ignored forever. Words and feelings used in conversation can be set aside and ignored but the weight of a letter cannot be measured. It is why we buy cards that say 'I love you' or 'Congratulations'. You can say those things on the person's special day, but the words in a card adds another dimension. Your concern and pain is manifested in a way that is much harder to ignore.

    Addicts have also kept those cards as a memento or reminder of what is at stake during their reboot. It is often a turning point in their lives that they need to keep them anchored in the present and not slip into old behaviors.

    You know your situation better than I do. I figured I'd add this commentary to anyone in the future looking for ideas on how to break through an addict's delusions.
     
  6. m_brando

    m_brando Guest

    Welcome, ErrorDefectiveChickUnit!! Your story is striking chords all over.
    They don't have a chance and we have to do all the reasoning because they can justify that "it's a guy thing." So we stuff our anger and become very unhappy and unsatisfied, or break ourselves against the closed door of their eternally compliant harem. Can't imagine there's any relationship where they can have us and have that. Your needs matter and you aren't defective. Hang on to your voice no matter what~

    My P/sex addicted exes really felt their masculinity validated in porn. Which is destructive in itself, but then the secondary destruction falls on us. And they both had the "mostly absentee father and covert narcissist mom" (worry, ineffective functioning, unfulfilled expectations, and vulnerability to stress.) The generations that were supposed to be so liberated ended up doing a really bad job raising us- the idea that everything that feels good is ok for everyone no matter what. It's like the sexual apocalypse up in here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2017
  7. @fuzzywaz ...are you made of magic? That's a scary-good guess. The stories I could tell you about these people... We should compare notes around the proverbial campfire over on the more private, less google-able boards sometime. Or is this is already a well-known theme on nofap?

    @i_wanna_get_better1 no argument here. It's great advice, undoubtedly useful to anyone coming across it in future. On that note, hubs had a surprisingly positive response to The Talk and is fascinated by the idea of a reboot, if only for the potential benefits he might experience. Not so much because he sees a problem with his habits, but it's more than I could have hoped for. I look forward to pointing him to some of your posts.

    @m_brando Hear, hear! I'm not sure exactly how I'd divvy up the responsibility for this mess, and I don't know how I would have better prepared my kids for the advent of something as then-unfathomable as the current incarnation of the Internet. But I can certainly spare a generous grudge for the balls that were nevertheless thoroughly dropped by the previous generation(s), though I'm sure I'm dropping my fair share.

    Also, "It's like the sexual apocalypse up in here" is clearly the tagline for a movie just waiting to happen. Would you mind if I quote you in my signature?
     
    m_brando and fuzzywaz like this.
  8. m_brando

    m_brando Guest

    No need to quote, it's yours!

    I'm new to the board, too- is this a known thing on NoFap? (I googled "lack of father figure + porn addiction and these were the first hits)
    integrityrestored.com/divorce-trauma-and-pornography-addiction/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/2ru6wd/does_anybody_else_here_feel_that_their_pornsex/
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/meaningful-you/201309/the-hidden-wisdom-porn-addiction
    https://illimitablemen.com/2014/05/08/the-suffering-of-the-lost-boys/
    http://www.blazinggrace.org/healing-father-wounds/

    It's almost a cliche that absent dads can lead women into performing in porn, and absent moms lead to breast fetishes. Who can say the veracity for sure, but hmm yeah. I wish there was a private discussion forum here.
     

  9. Interesting links. I was about to dismiss one of them as just the frustrated lunatic ravings of some dude so deep up his manosphere that the twitter sidebar next to his super insightful thesaurus-humping "essay" felt the need to point out: "Bitches don't have a thought process. They have a feel process" and "Fucking a lot of sluts violently is akin to war. Gangster as fuck." daw, bless.

    But on second thought, it sure does demonstrate there are men who have them some daddy issues. Well played!

    As for a private group, https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?groups/sos-significant-others-support.18/
     
    Bewildered likes this.

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