Attentive fapping

Discussion in 'Accountability Partners' started by EL88, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. EL88

    EL88 Fapstronaut

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    Guys,
    first things first: No hate, please!
    I'm on here for some years now, had ups and downs, and I learned many things - but the Mmost important: Find your OWN path to wander on - it won't be easier that way, but it will be the only one that gets you over the finish line.

    That said, my name is El, I'm a 30yo happily married guy and young father from Europe.
    I struggled with SSA (same sex attraction) since puberty - and still do.
    I do also have some issues regarding my maleness (lack of beard growth..., always compared myself to other guys in the gym...), that's why I started lifting some years ago.

    In the past years, it came to me, that P really was my problem and I'm very happy that I made it out of that shithole for quite some time now (over 120 days), even though I know it might not be completely over yet. These days, I struggle a bit with P-Subs like Instagram which I try to cut out as good as possible.

    BUT I also realized, that stop fapping doesn't feel right for me 'cause I see it as a part of my sexuality - with myself. (I know, why lots of you guys are choosing this path willingly, but i'ts not right for me.) I'm a Christian, so I know forgiveness - and I know, that Nobody's perfect here - at least myself.
    So I'm not sure, whether that's the right place, but I'd like to exchange thoughts about how fapping CAN be a HEALTHY part of ourselfs - CLEARLY without P or Subs.

    I'll leave it this open and hope to hear from you - via PM or here in the forum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  2. Healed!

    Healed! Fapstronaut

    I appreciate your approach. I hope you don’t get flamed by people who think differently. I used to think as you do. Since I’ve been on NoFap, I’ve come to understand some things that are true for me. They may not be true for you. 1. I am an addict. Any step in the direction of PM will lead me right back where I started. I’ve read too many accounts of people on here who “thought” they could M once a week and discovered, like Lays potato chips, “betcha can’t eat one.” 2. When I am Ming, it changes in a negative way how I relate to my wife. I’m not as attentive and there’s little sexual tension because I divert it all toward M. It’s an easy way to get relief, but it takes away the thrill of the sexual dance.
     
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  3. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    I agree. One caveat though, some of us find that masturbation pulls us back into porn use, and so abstaining from masturbation becomes part of the picture of our successful sobriety. Perhaps one day I'll go back to it, like you I think it is a positive thing, but at present I am frightened that such a big change might damage my sobriety and, in a more subtle way, it has become part of what I think of as abstaining from porn. But I agree with you 100% about this, especially this bit
    Although there is lots of science behind what we are doing the real secret is experimentation. Find what works for you by reading about what worked for others and adapting to fit you and your life.

    I guess my attitude to masturbation is summed up nicely in this quote:
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  4. Jay Hanuman

    Jay Hanuman New Fapstronaut

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    Yeah i think it is healthy. Just not when you programmed yourself, from very young age where your brain was integrating and creating your sexuality, to have a pornographic, fast, ejaculation-centered sexuality from frequent PMO.

    For me it results in not being able to stay in emotional contact while being sexual with a real girl. Instead of slowly riding the wave of sexual tension and feeling the human, automatically the autopilot of PMO kicks in and my brain wants to have penetration sex with the girl very fast, otherwise I feel disrespected and not esteemed and appreciated as a sexual male human. Which is big bullshit. :D
    Additionally when I 'get' the sex my brain is conditioned to long for so aggressively, I ejaculate way too fast, in like 2-3minutes, because my brain is conditioned to ejaculate so fast through fapping frequently fast the last 10 years.
    Then I thought I can 'just masturbate' differently, healthy like I normally should be able to. But its not working. Stimulation of my genitals just triggers the existing brain pathways of PMO and sends me back to wanting to PMO everytime my psyche is not in balance.

    In the future I want to learn to masturbate consciously, learn a new way of being sexual, a tantric approach. But as this guy tells: "Yes, edging is bad for dopomine receptors and certainly will slow down your rebooting progress. This is why I do not recommend to do any of this while rebooting. Make sure you heal your brain first and then work on conditioning it. Like @vajra said, edging is just necessity that's very hard to avoid if you have developed premature ejaculation due to conditioning your brain to orgasm fast by practicing quick masturbation. You need to retrain it. If you can edge during sex with your girlfriend and not with your hand then it is preferable. Because sex releases serotonin, masturbation does not. Serotonin counteracts / limits many negative effects of dopomine." it seems the only way for it is to first heal the brain. Then start fresh and masturbate consciously.

    Posts like these *google: "180 Day Report: NoFap in Co-Op mode, NoOrgasm and Karezza"* give me great hope that I can transform my sexuality and live in love with it and in love with a female.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  5. EL88

    EL88 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks, guys, for your insights and for being so open. I appreciate it very much!

    You’re right about the fact, that MO can bring you back to P/Subs/Urges very quickly - but what was once linked, can be splitted up again. So I hope, we can find healthy ways to m without feelings of guilt, remorse or being dragged down to the underworld of P.
     
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  6. frankpyle

    frankpyle Fapstronaut

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    No judgment here, just an observation. You went a long time with no PMO, but now your counter is 6 days. Perhaps you should consider that M is still leading you back to P. As others have stated, in order to re-wire your brain, and find relief from SSA, you must re-wire your brain, and that takes quite a long time. First healing of memories must take place. Deal with any and all childhood sexual issues - abuse, premature sexualization, same sex experimentation, etc. You may need a counselor or faith practitioner. Then total abstention from PMO for at least 90 days, probably more like 180 if you can, and are at the end of your rope. Meanwhile focus on your marriage, being as open and honest as you can with her about your struggles. Because you are young and not married that long, it will be better to get some of these things in the open, rather than spend a lifetime hiding and struggling. You may be amazed at her ability to help you heal, when you are willing to be vulnerable. More to say later, but got to jet out to work now.
     
  7. EL88

    EL88 Fapstronaut

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    Only as clarification: I didn't relapse to use P, even though I m'ed a couple of times... The timer hasn't been updated a while ago...
     
  8. EL88

    EL88 Fapstronaut

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    Honestly, thanks @frankpyle for your response and I'd like to read more about your thoughts!

    If I get your post right, you suggest that the SSA will "vanish" after a certain time of reboot - and maybe that's the way it is for some of you guys - but it's not for me. I don't think it's that easy! Sexual attraction to other people is deeply rooted in ourselfs and not necessarily linked to
    which I had none of. What you are saying, basically, is that same sex attraction is some pathological side effect of a failed, not normal occasion while growing up.

    For me, SSA is more like "bi" but in a consume-only way. And I don't think that SSA-burdened people should see a
    'cause they're NOT SICK - that's hardly something you can be healed of.

    Or am I viewing myself too powerless?
     
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  9. frankpyle

    frankpyle Fapstronaut

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    Sorry to be so long continuing this thread. I've been really focused on living life without sexual obsessions, and part of that meant (for me) not even coming here. I want to re-assure you, I am in complete empathy and understanding of where you are. You state that you have "struggled" with SSA. That in itself says to me, that you may need the help of "others" to untangle your thoughts, emotions, and behaviors, in order to discover why you "struggle". Let me ask one simple question, Is your attraction to men, desirable, or undesirable? If it is an unwanted part of your sexuality, then you CAN be released from it. You state it is deeply rooted in your "self". Roots grow from seeds. There was a seed of some sort, planted in your soul :

    Psuche - Greek
    1. the soul
      1. the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
      2. the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
      3. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

      You see, I believe that SSA is not who we were created to be, but is the result of some "bad seed", called sin, that was planted in us by an evil one, who wants us to doubt God, and seek our own physical pleasure above all else. Our souls are damaged by all sorts of things from the time we are conceived. Babies in their mothers' womb are effected by the outside world, what they feel, hear, and sense even their mothers' anxieties/issues. As they develop, everything they sense about the world they are born into is planting seeds that will grow and put down roots into their souls. I believe that being a Christian, means that Jesus work has made a way for all those seeds to be dealt with, rooted out, and the scars left behind healed as well.

      I know, modern psychology and popular culture has completely bought into the idea that sexuality is genetic or predetermined at birth. I simply do not accept that. I believe it is much more complicated and that that makes for an easy out, to just simply say, I was born this way, and there's nothing I can do to change it.
     
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