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Are we slaves to our desires ? the conflict between the Will and the Desire

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by The Watcher, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. The Watcher

    The Watcher Fapstronaut

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    A Buddhist monk has been practicing celibacy for seven years and suppressed all his sexual desire through the years. The thoughts, The images, The feelings, Practiced and meditated in the temple he took the decision no more sexual desire for the rest of his life, And one day when he was out of his temple he saw that woman with the red dress, since that moment all his beliefs all the practices all the years of hard working dropped suddenly his mind changed in less than a second and he gave up completely to the desire.
    Suppression is a time bomb sooner or later it will explode, and in the same time express it makes us directed towards the abyss, makes us un-respected to do whatever it takes to express it until we become its will.

    Take a lion for example when he hunts his prey look at his eyes while he is eating it it is not about food or hunger anymore it is like an orgasm for him he is blind and dumb during this moment, His desire to hunt dominates his will, both became one, ,(I am desiring it and by the power of my will I will do it to fulfill my desire).

    The will is much stronger than the desire but the desire is insistence and that weaken the will.

    Are we really slaves to our desire ? Is the desire the will itself or the opposite ?
     
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  2. Supression is not the same as control, that's what i think. I do not seek to suppress my sexual nature because I am a sexual being who has emotions, needs, etc but the control aspect is about understanding the difference between right and wrong and then growing towards your chosen path. For me that means one day meeting a partner I can be intimate with but at the same time understanding that porn is not going to get me closer to that goal, only will it serve to distance me from proper intimacy and connection with another human being.

    Will and desire are two different things in my opinion. My will is what gets me up in the morning to go to work or to work on a project, my desire is an ever changing thought process based on how i percieve my future how i live in the present and what lessons i have learned from the past. Sometimes we don't know what we desire until it is thrust upon us, for example someone buys some really cool gadget and shows it to you and you think 'wow i've just got to have one of those' that's desire, if you then choose to go out and buy it then you have turned your desire into will, you have made a choice to act on your desire. But your desire can change in an instant, that same person who showed you that gadget or whatever could turn round and say 'actually this thing is rubbish, it keeps breaking, look at all the bad feedback it's got on these reviews' so what was once your desire could become inate and uninteresting.
     
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  3. The will seems to become more empowered when we have major life tragedies or we hit rock bottom. Consider that a person who lost his favorite shirt is bothered by it only until his car breaks down; he has a desire to find his shirt but once his car breaks down he cares little for it and his focus is on getting his car fixed. Similarly, if he loses his house, he doesn't care about his broken car anymore and will do everything he can to get his house back. Or if he is terminally ill his house isn't as important as his health and he focuses on that regardless of his other desires.

    It's easy to overcome and to forget lesser desires relative to what truly matters. If my marriage / family / job was in trouble because of my desire for sex and porn, I'd likely have more will power to fight my addiction. But because I'm not married, have no family, and my job is not in jeopardy, it may take some tragedy to empower my will to fully overcome the addiction. Perhaps if the Buddhist monk knew that it would have taken several kalpas to reach enlightenment if he has sex with the woman in red, then he very likely wouldn't have dropped his sādhanā.
     
  4. The Watcher

    The Watcher Fapstronaut

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    so do we need much stronger desire to overcome other desires ? nothing rests forever and everything changes but in this modern society the insistence from the sexual desire is growing every second you can't run away from it and in the same time you can't face it, you can ignore it but it is there and growing.
     
  5. In 12 step programs, rock bottom is usually called an 'internal snap' i've experienced that and it's true that for a lot of users or addicts, until they see the bitter end they may not truly get the help they need. My internal snap was in the form of the police knocking on my door at 8am in the morning wanting to ask questions about what i had been looking at on the internet, if that doesn't motivate an individual to change their ways then there's probably no hope for them. Luckily for me and other people i may add, I took that as a massive wake up call and sought out proper help for both drug and porn addiction. I admire all the people on here who are seeking to understand and control their habbits who have not fallen foul of the law because they have reached a point where they can actually prevent a whole lot of unneccessary suffering. None of what I experienced in the last 6-7 years would have happened if I even knew that porn addiction was a 'thing' or that it was something people can get help for because back then i thought i was just being a normal guy and everyone watches porn so therefore i'm normal, yet my compulsive behaviour wasn't normal and I had a lot of unresolved trauma that I used drugs and porn to block out. You could say when moved towards extreme content I had basically just given up and lost who i was as a human being, i was pushing my luck, eventually if you find yourself in the dark corners of the internet you will get caught and more often than not people find themselves visiting these sites after years of porn abuse.
     
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  6. Tigger

    Tigger Fapstronaut

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    Will and desire seem like such abstract constructs, especially when they materialize themselves into action in our everyday lives. They seem to pop-up here and there with no real pattern at times and after acting out we ask ourselves "How did I get here?". Or so it seems. In fact, they are traceable, tangible, and it happens in the brains of all mammals.

    We have three brains really; a primitive (base nervous system), the middle (forgot the name), and the modern human brain (frontal cortex)

    The Desire:
    The Amygdala is part of our primitive/middle brains that deals with emotions, habits, and rewarding behavior. It essentially rewards the brain with surges of dopamine (feel good chemical) to reinforce behavior important to our survival; food, sex, and other pleasureable activities. Our brain gets programmed to anticipate and expect a reward even when we start thinking about these activities. Example, feeling excited about eating a delicious meal or in our cases getting ready to act out on our sexual desires. We're getting dopamine surges and it feels like a trance or tunnel vision. We simply react on survival. The lion going on a feeding frenzy that you used earlier is great example of that.
    This shuts down the part of our brain which deals with regulating and decision making.

    The Will:
    The prefrontal cortex is the part of our more advanced human brain. It's in charge of a process called "Executive decision making"; which is a fancy way of saying will power. This part of the brain judges consequences, weights in on the pros and cons of doing or not doing something. So when we think about purchasing a new car, our base pleasure response is to purchase the item we like the most, it appeals to mental specifications and gives us a rush of dopamine. Then the prefrontal cortex kicks in and analyzes the scenario; "this car is a v8, gas will be expensive. It costs 600$ monthly and I can't afford that. I need to pay rent, food, other bills. It's also a 2 door and not practical for my travel needs". A decision of this size happens infrequently, so we can usually rely on our executive functions to make the right choice. But with everyday small decisions that have already solidified into habits come as second nature to us. Eating food, drinking water, engaging in sexual activity. We've relied on automation of these habits being regulated by the Amygdala. So when the message comes into the brain, it doesn't reach the frontal cortex for analysis, it goes straight to the Amygdala and we just act on it. It's the same as seeing a spider close to your face in the peripheral vision. That message doesn't go to the prefrontal cortex for analysis "well is that really a spider, what else could it be, let me think about this some more". That doesn't happen; we just react because the message is highly negative and bypasses the prefrontal cortex, going straight to the Amygdala to act on.
    And the same is for any addictive behavior. The thought (which is highly pleasurable) bypasses the frontal cortex for analysis and we just act on it. Have you ever had that feeling when you're about to act out? You tell yourself "no, don't do it, listen to me" all the while you feel like you're in passenger mode along for the ride and your body is just in automation mode? That tension between the Amygdala (desire) and prefrontal cortex (willpower) is difficult and our higher brain gives up because the Amygdala has had more practice.

    Here's the good news:

    We can gain control of our frontal brain, and we can get better at it with practice.
    When we notice get a craving or urge coming up, right in the very beginning, we need to change our focus and environment. It's important to distract ourselves since we haven't developed that will power to say no to a habit we've been automatically engaging in and getting rewarded for so many years. In time as our frontal cortex gets stronger we can stand up to it.
    Say you're sending an email or checking out some YouTube video and the thought starts creeping in. You know yourself by now when the feeling rises. Right then and there we know it's coming. Tell yourself "okay, there's the fire alarm, time for the evacuation drill ". Get up and evacuate the immediate premises. Get of the house. Go wash your face. Down a glass of water. Go for a 5 minute walk. Drop and do push-ups or jumping jacks. This will break the Amygdala pattern and send more tasks towards the frontal cortex. The average craving lasts 3-5 minutes or less when engaging in other activities.

    Congratulations, you have just avoided an urge and for bonus points your frontal cortex just got stronger. The more we stick to our commitments the more we reinforce our executive functions and our prefrontal cortex strengthens. It's like going to the gym for your mind. Just like how we wouldn't hit 200 lbs right off the bat, but work our way up, the same applies to handling commitments. Start with small ones; "No matter what, I will brush my teeth before bed/do 3 push-ups at 6 pm/ go for a 10 minute walk ". Simple, but it ensures that we're practicing that self-discipline/will/prefrontal cortex and slowly building up our tolerance. As the executive function process strengthens, it becomes easier to reject urges. Practice and time. And sure there might be mistakes and relapses in between. Who cares. We're not aiming for perfection over night, but rather counting the improvements we made from where we started.

    Best of luck, and keep building that will power with one little commitment at a time.
     
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  7. We don't need stronger desires; we just need to figure out what really matters most in our lives. Once we know that, they automatically take priority just like the man who is sick is more concerned about his health than his car. He doesn't doubt that his health is more important than his car--he knows it to be true and so he acts accordingly. If we know PMO is a complete waste of time, then it will motivate us to focus more on those things which are truly important like having a good career or a family. I think the problem is we're not truly convinced that PMO is a waste of time or that it hurts us--we may know it but we really don't believe it otherwise we'd immediately drop it and start living for real. I say this, not because of others, but because of my own experience.

    Let's not choose to be victims of the environment. Yes, it is everywhere in society but that doesn't mean we are doomed to fail.
     
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  8. Nasagy

    Nasagy Fapstronaut

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