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Are any other PAs or SOs doubting their relationship?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by evs, May 20, 2019.

  1. May 20, 2019 #1
    evs

    evs Fapstronaut

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    As a brief overview, my partner and I have been together 5.5 years and have been dealing with his PA since he came clean in January. I have been supportive and optimistic and things have been going well. He relapsed last week on day 78 (M, not P) and he was devastated. I took it surprisingly well but since then I've downwards spiralled into a depressive episode, which I'm unfortunately prone to.

    Initially, when he told me about his PA, he said he wasn't sure whether he saw a future together - he went on to elaborate that was because he saw the relationship as 'ruined' by his behaviours and lies (there was also an instance of cheating). I explained that I didn't think that. Right now, when I'm feeling my lowest, I keep revisiting that issue of his confidence in our relationship. He said this morning he doesn't feel optimistic about our relationship in the future and that he isn't sure that getting over the PA will fix that. I know that my recent wobbles will have caused him doubt as to whether I want to get over it. I do! I just can't stop my feelings from bursting out into conversations and our everyday lives.

    He told me he is worried that it's been over 5 years of relationship and he doesn't feel like he 'just knows' or that I'm 'the one'. Now, I know there are lots of different interpretations of that but he says that, having spoken to other people in his life (his dad, his counsellor) he is anticipating a 'moment' where he realises that I am that person for him.

    I am obviously devastated and I don't want to believe it. Without coming across like I'm totally in denial, is there a possibility that the PA is clouding his judgement of our relationship (and has been for the last 18 months?)? He says he is afraid of telling me those feelings will improve, only to have led me on and traumatised me more once the PA is no longer an issue. He says he still loves me but says he doesn't know the difference between loving someone and being 'in love'. He doesn't want to split up but he admits that he's terrified of being alone and losing me as a support for this process.

    I'm just drowning in it at the moment. I am a firm believer that if we both attack this problem (his addiction and my healing) with optimism and determination we will beat it. But I make him feel hopeless by explaining my betrayal trauma and frightening him with depressive episodes.

    I have asked him to seriously think about whether he wants to continue the relationship. I'm afraid of the answer but I'm more afraid of pushing the idea of being together when it seems that he might not want that and he's just afraid to hurt me when I'm vulnerable. I understand that, irrespective of this, he might just not be in love with me anymore.

    Can anyone offer any support?
     
    evs, May 20, 2019
    evs, May 20, 2019
    #1
  2. May 20, 2019 #2
    Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Okay...this is just my opinion and I maybe totally off target. But here goes...
    Porn does colour their judgment, decision making process, and remember it’s an addiction. The addict will try to justify their behaviour anyway possible...until they hit rock bottom.

    If I were in your position ...lol...which I am, silly me. I would do this...and did. I calmly stayed what I wanted, needed and deserved. If his response was anything less than trying to meet my standards I was prepared to walk. Life is short and I’m unprepared to spend the last 15 years of my life with a man who is incapable of loving in a healthy manner.

    So my PA has at this point, risen to the occasion to attend five SA meetings a week, he has a sponsor, an accountability partner, and he’s starting to reach out to other members. He is also seeing a therapist once a week. If he had said NO to any of those requests I would have walked.

    This is his problem to figure out and work through...once he starts opening his mind and heart we will see where our relationship goes. We live in the same house , but as roommates only. If he wants me,.he is going to have to invest as much time in me as he did in his porn. I’m not going pussyfoot around an adult manchild. It’s time to grow up. Deal with the issues and move on.

    As mentioned our marriage is on hold...we are up for negotiations on June 1...which will entail another three month period, possibly maybe with less physical restrictions. Thing is right or wrong I was deeply and traumatically betrayed by his deceptions. He’s going to have to work diligently to gain my trust back so that I feel safe. I’ve spent 17 years making him feel safe only to end up being used and abused ,and taken for granted. No more...and that’s my boundary. You want me , you want us...then you work for it and earn it , maybe then he will appreciate all he has.

    Please don’t sell yourself short. You are powerful and beautiful. You deserve to be the one and only. Decide what you want, present it to him and let the cards fall where they may. When one door closes of bad stuff it opens the other door for good stuff. Have faith in yourself.
     
    Lostneverland, May 20, 2019
    Lostneverland, May 20, 2019
    #2
    jfromcr, hope4healing and Butterfly1988 like this.
  3. May 20, 2019 #3
    Deleted Account

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    This is very inspiring. Thank you for being so strong for yourself and for others by sharing.
     
    Deleted Account, May 20, 2019
    Deleted Account, May 20, 2019
    #3
    hope4healing likes this.
  4. May 21, 2019 #4
    hope4healing

    hope4healing NoFap Moderator
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    I don't think there's any question as to whether PA clouds their judgement of most things. That's the "P fog" you will see frequently mentioned around here. They are unable to clearly and accurately recognize their own feelings about the relationship as well as many other things because the addiction numbs them emotionally.

    Now that he's started his recovery efforts and had a little time away from P, he's going to experience feelings and emotions that he hasn't felt for a long time. For many PA's, this can be scary. They're so used to not feeling a wide range of emotions, and in fact, a lot of them use P for that very purpose. So, it can be overwhelming and even confusing to face these feelings now without their old ways of numbing themselves.

    Of all these 'new' emotions, I think guilt and shame are among the most difficult for many to face. Even after they've committed to recovery and are taking the right steps, it is a huge challenge for them to truly accept responsibility for all the pain and damage their addiction has caused. Some can be doing nearly everything else right, but their progress is held up because they can't yet be fully accountable for their actions. It may be something that they have to do slowly...taking responsibility a little at a time. But, while that's happening, they might still choose to place part of the blame elsewhere. That's what I think is happening here...
    The relationship is not healing like he believes it should because you might "not want to get over it"? That's absurd. I can't imagine anyone suffering from betrayal trauma that's wants to keep suffering from it.
    Although he's doing fairly well with abstaining from the behavior, I think he's struggling to find new, healthy ways of coping with his emotions. As I said, it can be overwhelming. But, with or without you, he's going to have to figure that out in order to continue in his recovery. In addition, he has to understand and find a way to cope with your feelings, too, because all the pain you're experiencing is real and normal. It's so unfair for him to guilt you because you feel the way you do. He can't expect you to hide your emotions just so he can avoid facing reality.
     
    hope4healing, May 21, 2019
    hope4healing, May 21, 2019
    #4
    MaxP71, Numb, Butterfly1988 and 1 other person like this.
  5. May 21, 2019 #5
    jfromcr

    jfromcr Fapstronaut

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    One thing to be aware of is that when I said "I love you", what I meant was "I feel good around you when you do what I want and not rock the boat."

    He may be discovering a whole new definition of love. Love is not a feeling for long in a healthy relationship. It is a choice to connect with someone consistently regardless of a feeling that comes and goes.

    Encourage him to see how long-term relationships are more than what he thinks. So much more.
     
    jfromcr, May 21, 2019
    jfromcr, May 21, 2019
    #5
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13, Lostneverland and Tao Jones like this.
  6. May 21, 2019 #6
    Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Very wise statement about I love you... that is so true.
     
    Lostneverland, May 21, 2019
    Lostneverland, May 21, 2019
    #6
  7. May 21, 2019 #7
    evs

    evs Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for all of your inputs. I do appreciate that his perception of emotions and empathy has probably always been clouded by using porn to cope with his issues. I don't want to fall at this hurdle now after everything we've talked through and worked through to this point.

    I believe that, if both of us remain optimistic about both our own and each other's recovery from this, we will get through it. At the moment, I feel emotionally exhausted from 'carrying' the motivation to improve our routines and habits and relationship.

    I feel as though I'm grieving at the moment, which feels odd. I'm looking back at all the times when I've felt secure and happy in the relationship and I'm devastated because 1) that's gone now and 2) I don't think it was ever real in the first place. I'm so overwhelmed by that grief this week I don't really know how to do anything else with my time. I identify this isn't helpful but it isn't easy to deal with!

    As far as giving him terms is concerned, I'm struggling to identify what those terms are in my own head. All I really want is for him to give his addiction adequate chance to subside (not disappear altogether) and to give me the chance to work through the trauma without becoming defensive and seeing it as another setback.

    The existence of this community is proof that there is enough motivation and research out there to make this work!

    In a cynical but oddly comforting way, things can't really get any worse than being completely in the dark about your partner's behaviours and feelings. I take most comfort in the idea that now I'm in an honest, real relationship with an actual means to continue if we can get past this. Things are already 'better' than they were with this honesty and openness and what I'm really mourning is my ignorance!

    I'm absolutely still battling this misery and I know that everyone here is too!

    I read a quotation on reddit which made a little more sense to me regarding the 'fog' of a porn addiction:

    "You can't be in lust and in love. You can't be angry and be at peace. You can't be selfish and be selfless."

    Hope that makes some nice sense to you guys too.
     
    evs, May 21, 2019
    evs, May 21, 2019
    #7
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  8. May 21, 2019 #8
    hope4healing

    hope4healing NoFap Moderator
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    This is something that I've struggled with for a very long time. When you think back about all the things you believed to be true about your relationship, it is so painful to know that the way you thought, the things you felt were all based on a false reality. So, you do grieve...you grieve the loss of the life you thought you had. I don't think PA's can ever truly understand how difficult it is to accept that, all along throughout the relationship, there was this whole other part of everyday life that existed, that greatly affected us, but that we had no idea about. It makes it hard to know what's real and what isn't anymore.
    As he goes through the processes of recovery, he most likely feels like the steps he's taking are steps forward, even when they are difficult or painful. So, hopefully, he can begin to understand that, as you work through the betrayal trauma, the steps you are taking are forward steps as well. They aren't backwards steps in his progress.
     
    hope4healing, May 21, 2019
    hope4healing, May 21, 2019
    #8
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  9. May 22, 2019 #9
    Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    That is exactly the way I feel with my PA. How do you move past that? My PA is in recovery, but continues to use me as his scapegoat. He is openly demonstrating anger, resentment and hostility...yet he goes to his meetings, talks rationally, calmly and listens attentively. When he talks with his sponsor he leaves the house and talks privately. I’m trusting him less and less. I have heard him talking calmly and responding with, oh I get it now. But with me , he is defensive and or a victim. You are always right... and then shuts down.
    He treats other people, particularly men, with more courtesy and respect than he does his wife. I don’t want to be involved with his program , but I still feel that I deserve an update of what he’s learning or how different issues affect him.
    So I guess what I’m asking is what are the boundaries in regards to SA Programs and the sharing of information. One thing I know he does, is ask me questions about various issues and then will go and parrot it to the group as if it’s his idea. So basically it feels like he’s memorizing all the lingo and things to say, but not fully comprehending it. It’s like how to train a better sociopath...and it can get scary.
    Input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
    Lostneverland, May 22, 2019
    Lostneverland, May 22, 2019
    #9
  10. May 22, 2019 #10
    Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut
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    Love is putting the other before the self. It is often self-sacrificing, but never in a showy way. It is easy to know if someone loves you, because they do this to and for you, in word and deed. Not perfectly, because no one performs perfectly, but more often than not.

    Saying and doing the right things without this heart of self-lessening intent behind them isn't love. It is manipulative, whether or not the manipulation is intentional. It is ego-protecting control, and it is vile. Once you know what this looks like, it is easy to see, too. And once trust has been broken by such manipulation, it is very, very hard to win back. Trust broken in such a way doesn't just crack; it shatters.
     
    Tao Jones, May 22, 2019
    Tao Jones, May 22, 2019
    #10
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  11. May 22, 2019 #11
    Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Yup, and that’s where the PA is...look at me I’m going to 5 SA meetings a week, and seeing a therapist once a week. See how good I am. You should be sleeping with me ....even though I refuse to meet your needs.
    Arg...I’m screaming this is most frustrating hideous addiction ever.
     
    Lostneverland, May 22, 2019
    Lostneverland, May 22, 2019
    #11

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