1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Addiction

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Hopefulgirl, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

    1,044
    1,995
    143
    PAs..... I can't get over the fact that my husband was addicted to other women. Alcohol I could have dealt with. Drugs, sure. Gambling, you bet! But other women?
    I feel like why even bother being sexually intimate with my husband because he doesn't get high off of me. I am sexually explorative but I dare not do any of the fun things I used to because he has seen countless other women live out his fantasies. Why show him my body when he has explored so many others that were perfectly edited and enticing.
    Why stay? Why even bother with sex with him? Help?
    Do any other SOs feel this way?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  2. TIMMY0110

    TIMMY0110 Fapstronaut

    433
    1,484
    123
    Dear Sadgirl,

    I am a recovering PA and on behalf of all the PAs I apologize to you. I know that this addiction has destroyed relationship and families.

    To begin with, I know that I have a problem and like many others we have joined the forum to correct ourselves.

    Your husband might be a PA. However, if he is making an honest attempt to get rid of his addiction then please support him in his journey. If he is doing everything he can to correct himself for you, then you are fortunate to have a husband who fighting the evil to re-establish the relationship with you.

    Many men have joined the forum to fight addiction so that they can be better fathers and husbands. Therefore, I believe such men (assuming that your husband is one of them) need a second chance in life.

    Greetings,

    Timmy
     
    Nugget9 and Deleted Account like this.
  3. Hopefulgirl

    Hopefulgirl Fapstronaut

    1,044
    1,995
    143
    Thanks Timmy! Yes my husband is a PA. I don't feel at all fortunate to have the husband that I do, regardless of his commitment to sobriety. He vowed to foresake all others and to cherish me. And he enjoyed thousands of women at my expense. So as much as I am fortunate he is trying to curb his lust for other women-it never should have gotten to the point that he let it.
    Do you have any perspective about the questions I asked in my post?
     
    Nugget9, Numb and TIMMY0110 like this.
  4. TIMMY0110

    TIMMY0110 Fapstronaut

    433
    1,484
    123
    Dear Sadgirl,

    I would not be able to provide an exact answer becoz Ido not know either you or your husband in person. Also, I am not married..Therefore, forgive my ignorance regarding the topic.

    Why stay?
    - If you believe that he is worthy of being given a second chance, then do give him a chance. If not, you know what to do. Like I said earlier, since I don't know you or your husband I cannot give you a definite answer.

    Why even bother with sex with him?
    - You may not like the answer.
    No matter how loving or sincere your father, husband, your son or any other men could me...whenever a girl in revealing clothes passes by us, we all cannot stop looking at her. Its almost like a natural reflex. I wish we have a bit more control in controlling the senses, but we don't. I am not justifying and telling you that its okay for men to fantasize about other women. All I am saying is that there is no man in this world who never had any sexual fantasy to a woman other than his wife. Most of the time we don't act upon our impulses or else you could imagine how problematic it could be.

    Long story short.......if you decide to stop having sex because he has fantasized about a different woman other than you, then it is better to move on. It is better to be single and happy rather be with him and be miserable. However, a perfect husband who has (or had) absolutely no sexual fantasy other than his wife doesnot exist (men who say they do are lying).

    Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods or anyone else..u name it. These celebs knew how dangerous infidelity could be on on their lives...they still went along becoz sex is the biggest weakness of men (and a woman's biggest strength over men)

    Again, if you believe he can correct himself, then its upto you to either continue the relationship or move on..

    I hope I somewhat answered your question.

    Take care and good luck. Greetings

    Timmy
     
  5. Beamer_Dreamer

    Beamer_Dreamer Fapstronaut

    52
    143
    63
    @TIMMY0110 I don't think you understand how men or marriages work. I can see that you are ignorant of what it's like in a marriage. Your comment on how men always look and habit look away is so far off from reality. That is not true at all. There are plenty of men, although probably hard to find that do not objectify women. Noticing attraction on a very low level in terms of reproduction, sure that happens a lot but still not every guy does it. We have complete control over whether or not we stare at someone. It's a taught reflex, not a natural one to objectify woman. Hell, I'm living proof! If ever hear someone talking about a woman that walked by, it actually pisses me off.

    Men who do not fantasize that way do exist but that point is superfluous in this thread. Sex is not the biggest weakness of men. That's crap, weakness depends on the person. What would be a way to lure me in if you wanted to take me or something? A woman? Fuck no. Flash my favorite car in front of me and you got me! What about serial killers? They're documented men that are enticed by killing. Even if they are sexually natured it's not the sex that's their weakness, it's psychopathy giving them intense urges to treat people a certain way that has to do with their own experiences.

    @Sadgirl , I understand that it can be incredibly difficult to be intimate with the person that hurt you so much in that way. I also don't know your situation very well. But even if he is committing to being sober, if he's not healing the relationship, then maybe not having sex with him is a good thing. Hopefully it can show him that he needs to make you feel ok and connected before something that intimate happens. It will probably still be hard to be intimate with him. If he were to get high off of you, then he'd be intimate only because he wants what you can do for him. You're not a drug, you're a human being worthy of love. It's great that he spent get a high off you. That means he can truly be with you and love you. Maybe not having sex is what you need right now. I say go with whatever you need in the moment and see how it makes you feel.
     
  6. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    842
    2,515
    143
    I struggle with this at times.
    for my husband it wasnt about the women but rather used P to get the orgasm to escape. We've talked many many times on this and its still hard for me to comprehend but he is genuine in his answer.

    I also was adventurous in bed but now am more reserved...

    Also please dont take what Timmy said to heart about men... those are myths and overgeneralizations. My husband is actually writing a response because my husband doesnt and hasnt ever had ogling issues nor fantasied about other women. In all honesty i actually notice attractive men but my husband seems oblivious to eceryone around him (he is usually so caught up in auto pilot or thoughts he doesnt notice.)

    Have you talked to your husband about the whys of the addiction? Like i dont know how much you know but ill give examples from my own husband

    I understand he got addicted because of his abusive mom and a divorce. He was a a child and only had access to porn, he didnt have access to gambling or drugs. My husband was addicted to porn and video games to escape the abuse. In that sense i am able to aproach this with compassion. I dont blame him for getting addicted but i do struggle with him doing it in the relationship when he promised me it wouldn't be.

    Then weve talked about the why he didnt stop or tell me, which came down to he was in denial and deeply in addict thinking and he learned to lie at an early age to avoid negative consequences. That helps me understand the behavior. It still hurts, but it helps me understand.

    Then there is a certain company my husband followed on IG so if it wasnt about the women then why follow those women specifically? We figured out my husband followed those type of girls (dyed hair, tattoes) because it was a reflection of what he thought he deserved/was supposed to be with. He never wanted to actually be with a girl looking like that but because my husband was a skater boy delinquint from a broken home he figured that type of girl is what he was supposed to be with and that type of girl he miggt fit in with better. I am the exact opposite, come from a home of marriage, love, and i am blonde, blue eyes, hour glass, and one tiny tattoo i got with my sister, and come from a comfortable family financially.
    So i often struggle with that IG stuff but understand why he looked at that type and in all honesty its sad... sad to think he figured he didnt deserve better....

    Then as for vids... there are certain things i cannot do in fear that he watched those things... i can only do it on the rare occassion. But my husband is very vanilla ... like same position and he is happy with it. I am adventuous but my husband called me a freak and other things when i wanted to explore sexuality (this was before i knee about his addiction) and so not only does the porn hold me back but his judgement holds me back as well.
    Personally i think with time, communication and trust building we can actually have a more exciting fulfilling sex life, but its going to take a while to get there.

    I stay because i love my husband and see his potential. Should this habe ever happened? Hell No. I set boundaries before we got together. He knew porn was a health issue for me (anorexia its a huge trigger to relapse for me which i did and had to go back to treatment because of all this) and how i felt about porn and he still did it. Because it was an addiction.

    For me i know i still need to process further the lying. I think thats truly where alot of pain is for me. Its not aboit the girls anymore because i truly get it, it wasnt about that for my husband he tried to get the PMO over with and did so in less than a minute. But the lying that is the real betrayal because had he told me the first time he slipped we would have worked on it and i would have helped him get help...

    So maybe talk to your husband and try to understand where the addiction came from, understand what he had access to during rhe beginning of the addiction which could explain the why it was porn, and see if he can explain to you the process of what it was like and why he chose what he chose. I know that is what helped me get to a half ok place that i am today, and if you read my journal you will see that i am a wreck most days... but i keep trucking on because i love him.
     
  7. TryingHard2Change

    TryingHard2Change Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Great comments @AnonymousAnnaXOXO and @Jak3! @Sadgirl, sorry you has to read the comments from @TIMMY0110 .. ignorance abounds in his comments for sure--but he is young, not married, part of this current world's culture...it is understandable.

    ..

    @Sadgirl: you are grieving .. you are grieving the death, the loss of the marriage you thought you had (the marriage you deserve). Grief is a whole long, messy process. I don't know where you are on that difficult journey ... but I know the last step is Acceptance.

    Acceptance of what happened. Not ok'ing it or justifying it or thinking it wasn't a big deal. Here is a quote I just found:
    "Acceptance doesn’t mean that everything is okay and we feel happy. Rather, it means that we have the opportunity to make our peace and find our own personal calm."

    Acceptance might mean the marriage is over.
    Acceptance might mean you accept what has happened and are cautiously able to move forward with him.

    If it's the latter..part of accepting it means if he looked of 500 women or 5,000 or 5 million -- that was then; it was SSSOOO wrong; you both acknowledge that; he has worked hard at recovery and building trust with you again; and you are able to have hope and vision for the future of your marriage. (even if it's just a tiny sliver of hope in the beginning)

    ..

    Every sentence I write is inadequate to capture just how difficult and complex this step of acceptance is. But acceptance is the doorway to moving beyond grief. (I believe my wife is stuck in the depression stage right now.)

    Hang in there @Sadgirl.
     
    hope4healing likes this.
  8. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    At first I didn't want sex with him after I found out. Then about 45 days into it, we started having sex and then we had a lot of it, for months, a ton. That lasted until he lied (about non-PA stuff). Then I took a step back. Then after a while, it would go back to our new normal. Then he'd lie again (non-PA stuff). And it would go farther back, that became a pattern until eventually I didn't want to be intimate. Not just sex, but not intimate at all. That's where I am now and I don't see it ending. I'm just so fucking hurt. This latest thing, he insists he is not lying about but I feel like he is. We are at a standstill and I can't get over it because I feel like he isn't telling the truth. He will not budge that he is. And maybe he is, I don't even know anymore. I feel like my gut instincts are broken ever since this whole PA thing happened because I apparently have no clue who I was married to for 14 years. Anyway, I don't want to have sex with him now and haven't in about 2 months. I feel bad in a way because I know that means he is getting nothing but that is his own fucking fault. I don't even want him to hug me. I'm extremely hurt because of what he did and incredibly sad that this is my life now.
     
  9. JustSadPorn

    JustSadPorn Fapstronaut

    280
    409
    63
    I guess I'm sort of the opposite of you on this particular aspect of my husband's PA. Finding out that he was actually looking at thousands of bodies, none of them for more than a couple minutes at a time, it was easier for me to view this as a drug addiction.

    If he was scrolling though 100+ videos, he wasn't looking critically at each one, and thinking to himself, "Hmm, her boobs are bigger than my wife's, but her voice is a bit shrill when she's moaning. So, on the balance, I think I still like my wife better than I like her. I will not cum to this video, and instead I'll go spend time with my wife." Or, "She doesn't have unsightly freckles like my wife does, her ass is firmer than my wife's, and she seems like a lot of fun. I bet she'd be interesting to grab a cup of coffee with. Yes, this woman is better than my wife in many ways, and I'd rather have an orgasm with her." He clearly wasn't putting that much thought into it. It was just scroll, get a "hit," and move on to the next.

    I guess understanding the actual pattern of his use, and the sheer volume, helped me to realize that it really isn't about me. It isn't even about people (not in the way I think about people, anyway.)

    Now, the ogling and the emotional affair, those are a different story...
     
    Hopefulgirl likes this.
  10. CowardlyLion

    CowardlyLion Fapstronaut

    I don’t think @TIMMY0110 deserves all of those harsh words. He’s got a valid point and a valid opinion.

    And I’m really sorry to say, but he’s not really wrong. You can claim all you want that you never ever ogle women. But we are sex addicts. It’s part of our addiction. It’s not right by any means. It’s horrible. But if you can’t be honest with yourself, you will never get better.
    I’ve played the oblivious part before. I’ve said the “I just thought I belonged with that type of woman” excuse before.
    If you do not admit to your behaviors, especially to yourself, you will never be able to heal. And if you continue to live a secret life, it will destroy everything you hold dear. I promise you this. I’m an addict. We can tell when another addict is full of it.

    Sorry to hijack your thread @Sadgirl . Staying is hard. There are a lot of things you will feel. Look at his actions. If he honestly wants to be with you he will work. And you will see the work he is putting in. If he’s not spending every moment of his free time trying to recover or better himself, he is being selfish. You are not worth it to him. A marriage is the most wonderful thing anyone could ever have. And if you put it second to anything in your life, you don’t deserve it.

    Recovery makes the immature person mature. There is no room in recovery for immaturity.
     
  11. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    842
    2,515
    143
    Are you trying in invalidate my husband and other men's experiences? In 3 years I've never seen him look at another woman. And he is a Porn Addict Not Sex Addict. Sex addicts have much higher and dangerous behaviors. There is a huge difference between a guy who watches vanilla porn and sticks to that versus a guy who is on hook up sites, sees escorts and has multiple affairs.... VERY FUCKING DIFFERENT. Plus my husband, as any addiction starts, maybe when he was 12 it was about the girls, but he by the time he was 14 tried quitting and hated himself since and tried to get PMO over with as quickly as possible, so it was about finding an escape and finding a clip with a position he liked, not people he liked (whether they were attractive or not was irrelevant, he was looking for favorite positions).

    What fucking excuse? Maybe for YOU that's an excuse. As Most Addicts try to tell their SO, if they watch child porn it doesn't necessarily mean they want to have sex with a child. Same thing goes for a male who watches gay porn and is straight. Does that mean he wants to have sex with guys? Probably not. It simply means the addiction has taken them into places they NEVER WANTED TO BE.

    For my husband,

    BUT TRIGGER WARNING....





    the IG was suicidegirls


    END TRIGGER














    Those types of girls are very specific. It's similar to my thing for Emo boys/Skater boys. I like the look, but would Never want to be with someone who looks like that, it would freak me the fuck out. My husband thought those emo/skater/punk etc. looking type women were of his status (poor, broken home, delinquint) and figured that is what he was supposed to be with. This was after a break up with a girl the complete opposite of that. She was from a home of marriage, loving parents, proper, etc. and treated my husband like crap. He figured he was crap. He figured he didn't deserve girls like that. Hence where his addiction took him.

    You know how we figured all this out? We psychoanalyzed. Maybe you can try that yourself on your addictive habits wherever they took you. Figure out where they came from, started from, and what drew you there. So there is no excuse. And maybe when you say to yourself, "I just thought I belonged with that type of women" think deeper. Is there a self-esteem issue? A self-worth issue? Is there a grandiose belief?

    Reflection is the key to freedom. Once a person understands their behaviors, patterns, and where they come from and have been triggered by, they can actually be aware and change and get healthy. My husband has been over 2 years PMO free. I think he is doing AMAZING. So maybe when he was within the first month free he was struggling, but he doesn't struggle with that stuff. What he struggles with is repression of feelings without any addiction to escape and aid in the repression process.
     
    Hopefulgirl, Jennica, Nugget9 and 4 others like this.
  12. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,865
    143
    Just to clarify, porn addiction is a form of sex addiction. I believe @CowardlyLion was using the term to encompass all forms, not to pigeon hole anyone. PAs are, in fact, in the sex addict category.

    Besides, if you think about it, PAs don't see a CPAT, they see a CSAT. :p
     
    Hopefulgirl and hope4healing like this.
  13. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    842
    2,515
    143
    I know it's under the umbrella of sex addiction but i and my husband consider him a porn addict. if i hear sex addiction that encompasses a lot more behaviors than one who only acted out with porn
     
  14. CowardlyLion

    CowardlyLion Fapstronaut

    I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have made a personal attack. I’ve just followed Jaks posts and I want to see him do BETTER. I’ve been there. I was so full of it myself, I gave my partner every single excuse to justify my behavior. I’ve had similar behaviors. I thought I deserved to be with a punk girl. I was an outcast. I listen to punk-pop/screamo whatever you wanna call it. I went to Warped Tour religiously. But I was too ugly for a girl like that.
    I also got out of a 7-year relationship, where my partner had an affair over 3 months. I used that as an excuse.

    But the point is...just because that’s the case for me, doesn’t mean it’s the case for Jak. I’m trying to push my anger at myself on to others because I just want them to do BETTER. I wasn’t able to even START my recovery until I took a long hard look at myself and realized I was lying. Not just to my partner, but to ME.

    Anyways, the point here is that pornography is horrible. Sex addiction, sex with self, sex with people other than spouses...it’s a death sentence for love. If I could stop my little boy self from being exposed to all of those things I wasn’t ready for, I would. If I could grab teenage me and tell him to stop before he loses himself, I would. If I can tell the fresh out of college kid who had just found out that the girl he thought he was going to marry was unfaithful, that he shouldn’t retreat for two years into the darkness of pornography...damn it I would.

    But your lives are not my life. So I apologize.
     
  15. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,865
    143
    In the 22 years I've known my husband, I have never seen him ogle a women either. But what i found out after DDay is that he could take a normal 1 second or less glance at a woman, like any normal person does, and "save" the image for later, either to fantasize about or to look up similar looking women in porn. It is amazing what the addiction does and what lengths the addict will go to hide it.
     
    hope4healing and Deleted Account like this.
  16. Hopeishe

    Hopeishe Fapstronaut

    82
    56
    18
    sadgirl,

    i think most wives have felt the same . i had the same thoughts and feelings too.

    i think if he does it again and kept it a secret and ...somehow i know,

    i'll just emotionally detach from him. How?

    By having my cake and eat it too...but on the pretext of male-friendship and learning a new language.

    Not in a sexual way but this step will keep me from feeling attached to my husband.

    sigh.

    For the kids' sake.

    you're not alone.
     
  17. Beamer_Dreamer

    Beamer_Dreamer Fapstronaut

    52
    143
    63
    @CowardlyLion I'm not trying to be harsh. All I'm saying is that you can't generalize the entire make population of a species. I get the a lot of PA's and SA's have expertise worth ogling problems, but just because a majority is a certain way doesn't mean everyone is. There are so many similarities for everyone with PA or SA but everyone's experience is also different. Also, I am a porn addict, not a sex addict. The difference being I only acted out sexually with porn. I never escalated to anything live or with real people. I'm not making excuses for anything, I'm figuring it of reasons behind my actions so that I can change. So that I can avoid the problems that caused my acting out. If I can figure out the root causes, I can change the core of the addiction and recover. I don't want to assume I an issue and accept it if it's not the real root cause. I need to dig deep and think dynamically. A lot of what I need to recover is locked away in my repressed memories. Admitting that I thought I want worthy and that I used it to escape fits perfectly with my past and the ways I used in my addiction. I know that because I can connect it all with the abuse of my mom which I know because my older sister remembers and I don't. She told me the shit we went through and I still don't remember. Although my brother might. Either way I've made three connections and they fit. That's how I can recover, it's because I understand what happened. They are not excuses.
     
    Hopefulgirl likes this.
  18. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,865
    143
    I know that people dont like to hear it, but porn addiction is sex addiction. My husband never escalated to anything either. He only looked at recorded videos/pics and compulsively MOed, but he still falls within the sex addict category. He sees a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist and is also in Sexaholics Anonymous, where those who attend his group range from porn addicts to sex offenders. They are all sex addicts of varying degrees.

    It can be hard to lump oneself in with "those kinds of people" but humility for it all goes a long ways towards recovery.
     
    Hopefulgirl and CowardlyLion like this.
  19. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    1,738
    3,865
    143
    I agree that they aren't the same but porn addiction falls under the umbrella of sex addiction. There is a lot of debate among even many of the best sex addiction specialists exactly where it falls.

    My point is that it is important for all of us to remember that splitting hairs like that doesn't help anyone. When we start emphatically categorizing ourselves it's easy to start thinking we are better than others or that we "aren't that bad." We are all here for the same reason, to help ourselves and to help each other.

    I think @CowardlyLion was using the term as a general idea as to why we are all on this site rather than to try to nail anyone to a specific label.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  20. CowardlyLion

    CowardlyLion Fapstronaut

    Yeah, sorry I didn’t mean to cause any confusion. Sex addiction is the classification that porn addiction can fall under. Most of the men in my 12-step group identify as sex and lust addicts, but have only acted out with pornography. Sex addiction includes sexual fantasy.
    A lot of people who come into SAA have the same way of thinking; “I’m not like those guys. Those guys are sex perverts and criminals”. But then they sit and listen and end up realizing “oh wait...that sounds a lot like me.”
    I cannot explain how much help my 12-step has been in my recovery. But the major thing I learned is that we are all powerless. It just takes someone with courage to turn that powerlessness over to others.
     

Share This Page