About Consequences

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by HonestyMatters, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    For those partners using boundaries and consequences, I'd like your thoughts.

    Once a consequence has come to an end (for us its separate sleeping arrangements) if the husband still completely disagrees that they've done anything wrong should

    a) the situation that occurred be just left at that and we move on even though nothings resolved or

    b) the PA needs to own and acknowledge and validate what he did wrong. If he refuses, should a consequence continue until they do so.

    I'm totally stuck on this because I feel like he needs to own it and validate it. Otherwise I find it extremely difficult not to hold resentment and just to move on. This is because i know it'll just happen again. The fact that he so strongly disagrees makes it hard to resume normal relations or even want him to touch me.

    How are other wives/partners handling this?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  2. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

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    Ok , honestly this is a nasty long term fight . I have changed my boundaries a couple of times . Some of them felt , I dunno , like I was trying to create the perfect human being lol
    The B&C we just had was the first . We talked about it at length before the C started . He acknowledged. I dunno if they would have served the purpose if he didn’t . But we talked about it again during C and at the end of C , and about a week later . Are you guys doing FANOS ??
     
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  3. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    What is FANOS?

    Not sure if I’m trying to avoid confrontation or just exhausted and avoiding the extra work but I haven’t made a specific consequence list yet. I’m starting to consider. So I’m interested in following your experiences.
     
  4. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

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    My husband was NOT a good communicator at all . We do FANOS on the weekend , we don’t follow it to a T . We both write them out , hand them to each other then discuss . It enables me to hear about his struggles /sobriety and I’m able to speak
    http://sexual-sanity.com/2010/02/guided-conversations-to-build-intimacy-between-addicts-and-spouses/
     
  5. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    My post is in relation to when they refuse to acknowledge.

    With a broken boundary that he Acknowledges we do exactly what you said above.

    So when C finishes and they still refuse to acknowledge should a) the issue be dropped b) continue C until they acknowledge

    That's all I was trying to get at.

    FANOS is great as a general communication tool but it's not designed to get him to address and own a specific situation.
     
  6. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

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    Ok , I couldn’t answer cuz it’s only happened once and he KNEW he fucked up , broke a B . So I’m not sure how I would handle it . Prob call a truce maybe ? I dunno . In regards to FANOS , the S is not considered “general” it is for struggle /sobriety. He also answers 3 Qs I have , sometimes I don’t have any
     
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  7. Banjaxed

    Banjaxed Fapstronaut

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    You can’t force him to acknowledge it, but you can enforce the consequence?

    And failure to acknowledge/own a boundary breach needs to be itself a boundary breach, so the consequence continues and then escalates after your set timeline

    At least that’s how I think it has to work. Good question though, not seen it asked here recently
     
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  8. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    Here's my view on it:

    You establish a rule for your child. Those rules are so important to you, that you post them on the refrigerator. It is a boundary that you are not willing to negotiate for your child to cross. If your child breaks that rule, the consequence is already known. Why? Because it's on the damned refrigerator. For example, I had a general rule that stated "You will not assault another person, animal, or thing (vandalism). If you do, the consequence is you lose your phone for a month. So your child assaults another person. "Give me your phone", and then we listen to the "But....", "It wasn't my fault...", "I didn't start it..." and all that foolishness. My response is, "Did I make any exception to the rule when I delivered the rule?" The answer is "no". "You'll get your phone back in a month from today. You're lucky. There are only 30 days in this month". "Keep whining and complaining, I'll double it".

    Your Partner is an addict. A petulant child. Make the rule (boundary), Set the consequence for the rule, and enforce it. There is no argument. There is no discussion. And "I don't want to hear it anymore". And let him go whine and cry to all his friends what a terrible bitch you are. Remember, he did this. He owns this. He has acted like a child. He is acting like a child. Treat him like you would your child and don't tolerate anymore from him than you would your child. As difficult as this is, it really is that simple. You just need to grow the courage to follow through. And just remember, no matter what, the both of you will be better persons on the other side of this. Boundaries & Consequences & Execution. I cannot say it enough. Had I had those, trust me, I wouldn't be in the condition and situation I am in today. I love all of you, and I wouldn't wish my hell on any of you. And I mean that.

    Now, I know you need validation. That's on you, and really is your problem, not his. I know, I know, that's not what any of you want to hear. "We accept the things we cannot change". That's the first line of the Serenity Prayer. You cannot change or control him. He has to want to change or control himself. I can sit here and tell you that you're going to have to let that go. You're going to have to forgive him for this just like you're are going to have to forgive him for his betrayal. And not because he deserves it, but because you do. Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. And I know a whole lot about resentment. I'm still working through mine. I used to go absolutely ape shit over it. I am finally getting to a point where I am coming to terms with it. Hopefully, by the end of the year, I'll be at peace with it.

    I hope this helps, and I know you're going through a ton of shit right now. You're doing great BTW. It's just a huge shit sandwich, and everybody has to take a bite.
     
  9. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    So in essence, your saying at the end of the consequence, I drop it and forgive. I don't know if I can. I struggle with being wronged and him not owning it. It's hard to forgive something you know will keep happening if they don't own/acknowledge it. I know the forgiveness is for my benefit. But the resentment that it'll keep happening until it's owned still remains. It's all soooo draining beyond words....
     
  10. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

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    But then that’s YOUR choice ! Don’t you see , the B&C are to make you feel safe in the relationship . If the Bs keep being tested /failed , it’s SHOWING you he’s incapable Or doesn’t WANT to acknowledge AND recover . Then , you fucking know where you stand ! That’s the point ! I know I would be exhausted being YOU or HIM . Meaning , a B then a C then stacking the B and Cs , at some point he’s going to wonder which B the C was for . You as well , just another thing to keep track of . I’m so much further in , 18 months in til his aha moment including implementation of B&C . HAD I implemented them right after DDAY I am pretty sure it would not gone smoothly. The brain fog takes awhile to go away ;(
     
  11. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    Lemme ask you something. If your child does something wrong, you send them to timeout. After timeout, all is forgiven, right? Your Partner, in the midst of his addiction, is acting like a child. It is described by Psychologists as "child-like behavior". I get the resentment piece. Oh, how I get the resentment piece. It takes a lot out of you to forgive. And you can forgive. You just have to do it on your own time. Maybe now isn't the right time to forgive. Maybe you need more time. And that's OK. Just as you expect his remorse, he expects your forgiveness. So which will come first, the chicken or the egg? As for him though, "do you have to be right, or do you have to be married"?
     
  12. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    YES, this this this this this, and can I get a this for this?
     
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  13. Qnb42078

    Qnb42078 Fapstronaut

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    I was going to namedrop you @GhostWriter because we literally just talked about this lol SO literally said” I wouldn’t have taken them serious “
    I think the longer he is a PA the longer the fog , denial , and the true feelings of losing their Precious P
     
  14. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    It's like this giant pacifier that we cannot get rid of for anything. I mourned the loss of my huge porn collection. Some of it I hadn't seen in 15 years, but I couldn't live without it. Is sickening. You're so right.
     
  15. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    FANOS is a daily check in with your spouse to practice emotional intimacy. It's from the Greek word that means to shine or reveal.

    F Feelings--state your feelings, not your thoughts.

    A Affirmation/acknowledge--give your spouse an affirmation--or say thank you for something.

    N Needs--ask for something you need (knowing that sometimes your need will not be fulfilled)

    O Own something you did. Say you are sorry.

    S Sobriety--the addict will check in with his or her spouse about his or her sobriety. If sobriety is no longer an issue, you may each choose something you want to change, ie, habitual TV watching, rage, withdrawal, sarcasm, ect.) for your spiritual growth and check in about your progress with that issue.

    Courtesy of @ILoathePwife. She started a thread on FANOS years ago here: https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/have-you-heard-of-fanos.67103/
     
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  16. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Yes, I do realise that but we've only put them in place a few weeks ago. I think it'll take a little longer than that to make a determination

    Yep, B&C stacking not ideal. But then what, if on a consequence and another one crossed no consequence?
    That would seem like free reign to me!!

    We are very early days at the B&Cs so its huge adjustment to both of us and its going to take some navigation. Separation at this stage is not on the consequences. Therefore it's not a case of jumping to immediate Its Over! It's not to say it won't be added in time to come. It'll all depend on how this all plays out.

    Also, I am keeping written record of boundaries crossed and how it all played out, dates etc for me....but he has written copy of it all too - he even has a flow chart on it! You can't get much more simple than that. So he can't play the I'm confused card. He is so slow on the uptake he needs it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  17. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Yes, I get your point! But looking at it from the point of the addict being a "Child" It also takes an EXTREME amount from me to go from what is supposed to be 2 Adults raising 3 children to a single parent raising 4 children and the adult is the most difficult child of all. The one you're supposed to be able to lean on and get support from and who's supposed to be helping, not adding to the pile of shit to be done. It's just FKD quite frankily. But it is what it is and he certainly aint gonna get perfection or anything remotely close to it from me being put under these circumstances.
     
  18. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Very good point! Make it a boundary breach of it's own. For us it's simply separate sleeping arrangements so could stay at that on a day by day basis until owned/acknowledged....need to think about this!! Thanks
     
  19. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    I know. And it really sux. You're so right. We are the biggest most petulant child in the bunch. Yet we're the ones you should be able to fall back on and depend on. If you ever watched the movie "A Beautiful Mind" with Russell Crowe, His wife played by Jennifer Connolly, she had to endure so much with his erratic behavior. Addiction mimics Schizophrenia in so many parallels in terms of collateral damage in the relationship. I loved Jennifer Connolly in this movie because she exhibited profound strength and resolve. She stood by him in spite of everything telling her she should cut her losses and leave. You women that have the endurance to do this are my Saints.
    I'm on the fence on this one and here's why. If this becomes a boundary, and he perceives it as punishment for the way he thinks or believes, and not for the way he acts and behaves, it predisposes him to acknowledge it by patronizing you instead of a genuine belief. and agreement. He is just going to tell you what you want to hear. That's my view of it anyway. Your consequence has to be something that promotes behavior, not thoughts. If he does this to resolve the consequence and not because he believes in it, he will only resent you for it. That's not what/how you want it to get resolved. Leave the Boundary violations for things that affect you; not him. They are, after all, your boundaries. This goes into that category of "You cannot judge a person by their actions and then judge yourself by your intentions and vice versa. It doesn't work that way". You set a boundary. He suffers the consequence. End of violation. That's the way it has to be. You start piling on, and I assure you that you will end up with bitter root judgments and bitter root expectations. You're going to have to let this one go and ride it out. Do the right things, and this will resolve itself over time. At some point, he WILL have a lightbulb moment. Just stay the course, and it will work out.
     
  20. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    Amen. This is so ridiculously unfair.
     

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