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A frank discussion about Christians, Christianity and God

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Eric'sBlue, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    Hi,
    I wanted to discuss some things which have been a source of confusion, bothersome to me ...for quite some time now; and also because, it's very hard to talk about or discuss these things without having the book thrown at you or, no offense, the usual Christian kool-aid. I am a Christian I suppose; I was raised Catholic but no longer consider myself a Catholic. I became interested in Protestantism, after my father, but went to a few churches and was disappointed in it. To me, it became important after a severe life wake-up call and epiphany, to search out God again...but this time not through any church per say, but through personal reading and contemplation of the Bible on my own, truly seeking the truth about things. I would say I believe in God, have a deep belief, and I believe the Christ, christos (the anointed one) is God's son. I have even gone as far back as to gain a rather deep interest and fascination into the ancient Egyptians - where the Hebrews derived most of their spirituality and customs from, in the post Hyksos period on. In particular, their God Amun, and how they revered Him.
    I am going to just be honest. I find many Christians to be their own worst enemy... I can see why many people argue with them and find it hard to dialogue with them. Nearly every conversation I've had with Christians...and I hate to say this, has felt more like I'm being quizzed to whether I'm saved or not. It seems like Christians have a one track-mind. There are like 33 denominations, really? Really... you can't all find a same page at some point. And they fight over miniscule stuff. They seem to have a closed door mind and just stick their point of view, not listening to anything. You're either in or out. That pressure has been thrown at me countless times. However - I feel I can hold my own in any debate about God, because I have read the Bible and I don't count on any external source solely for giving/feeding me my religion. I do the seeking on my own, which I feel everyone should do.
    I find myself embarrassed for Christians, honestly. It's embarrassing to me as well. I think, can't we be better than this?
    I just find it hard to have an open ended, spiritual and intellectual conversation with most Christians, they immediately go into this script of what they're told to think. I doubt many of them have delved into bible study, and studied and absorbed the teachings of the old testament, which are foundational. They seem to mainly stick to the Pauline scriptures....which I have conflicted feelings about. It just seems like the conversation always takes a turn where you feel, you are being pinned up against a wall and quizzed, and if you answer wrong (...and you are supposed to answer correctly) you are going to hell, not saved, etc., ad infinitum.
    This is not God's way. Excuse me for sounding heretical. This is the church's way, this is not of God. ..God does not coerce. There is no fierceness or pressure from God. God is. I have tried to explain this or more from my point, but have fallen flat on my face over and over again. Some quotes from Proverbs come to mind at this point, in dealing with foolish people or people who behave foolishly.

    The church is a mess, the world's a mess. I don't know why they (Christians) have to be so coercive.
    I've actually thought about visiting some sects of Judaism, as I derive most of my spiritual teachings from the OT, along with the NT. I've thought particularly, Hasidism, orthodox, etc.
    I still don't know how I feel about this. I may give it some time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
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  2. Brasileiro

    Brasileiro Fapstronaut

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    MY OPINION, DON'T WANNA CAUSE ANY SORT OF TROUBLE: Yeah... Man, i have experienced this. I was a Jehovah's Witness, so i can explain some stuff. Here is the catch: people believe what they want to believe. There's no such thing as "God wants me to do this or that", because when Jesus came, he simply told us to love God more than everything else and love the people after God. That is it. Everything else is inventions, that are made to control people.

    I mean, that is if you believe the Bible or the Quran or other book based on Moses... Because i personally find the Bible very smart. I mean, you need a god and there he is. You need a savior, there he is. You need to explain death to the kids, and why bad people exists, so you create a bad powerful dude who hates the good, and say that he is the cause of all the bad in the world. I have read the Bible many times by parts (because we did that, as Witnesses) and one time, cover to cover.

    I found that there is no good in religion. If you believe in some god, go for it man. But people confuse faith with false hope.
     
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  3. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    That makes me very sad to read. Can you explain what you mean in the last part - people confuse faith and false hope? ..I'm not sure I'm understanding/ is it that you still believe in God, but not religion? Thanks
    I've derived more gentle loving understanding, patience, wisdom and tolerance from reading the Word than anything in my entire life. I honestly now don't know what I'd do without it.
     
  4. melancholy king

    melancholy king Fapstronaut

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    As someone who identifies as atheist, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

    Everyone likes to believe they are superior to others, whether it be based on religion, or race, or country, or sex, or whatever. Many Christians love to say how much better they are than other Christians, than other religions, than the "nonbelievers". You hear atheists do the same thing in regards to other groups. Its typical, however in order to grow and improve one must try to look past those views and appreciate others as they should be.
     
  5. Brasileiro

    Brasileiro Fapstronaut

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    I mean that in order to escape the shitty reality we live, most people claim to some god expecting he or she come and save all of us, instead of dealing with their own business... What the hell? Lol, i did that myself. I hoped Jehovah made me strong enough to quit porn, to be smarter, to find a nice girl. He didn't do it until today... But don't listen to me buddy, this is just my opinion about this...

    If i may, the Bible taught me a lot. I am patient, i like reading, i am polite, I respect others, all because the good book.

    The problem is not the Bible, or in God, it is in the humanity...
     
    Axesteel likes this.
  6. Hey @Eric'sBlue, interesting post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have some of my own to chip in.

    You know, I can absolutely see how this can feel like an attack or being quizzed, but if I may add an alternative perspective, I think the reason many Christians are so focused on this is because of the fact that half of our nation claims to be "Christians," but when you talk to them... they really have no idea what they believe. If your friends or fellow Christians you've been conversing with truly care about you, they will want to know that you have the hope of heaven in your life. So perhaps they're coming from a place of love, wanting to ensure your future with God. I agree that we/they can go about it the wrong way at times, but I think the heart behind it is love.

    So true... we need to stop fighting among each other and accept that we are all worshiping and following the same God. Personally, I disagree with a lot of things in a lot of different denominations of Christianity, but as long as it isn't a destructive belief that is drastically altering the word of God in an important way, I say live and let live.

    I feel this way too, often. I think what we all need to remember... you, me, other Christians, other non-Christians... is that Christians are fallible humans. We are all sinners and we're all making mistakes, day after day. It's unfortunate when our mistakes cause others to have a hard heart toward God and the gospel of Jesus. At the end of the day, though, you have to look to God, not to Christians. Unfortunately, a lot of the problems people have with "religion" and "Christianity" aren't problems with God, they are problems with people who are misrepresenting what God is about.

    It's important for everyone, including us, to know and remember that Christians make just as many mistakes as non Christians do. It is, indeed, sad to see people harden their hearts toward God because of negative experiences with "Christians" who are misrepresenting the word.

    Anywhoozle, thanks for sharing your thoughts here, man.
     
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  7. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Humility is an aspiration of any true follower of God. That negates the view that one is superior to others, even by default.
     
  8. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    I am the exact opposite. Was a Protestant for years, and finally converted to the Catholic Church. Funny old world, isn't it.
     
  9. melancholy king

    melancholy king Fapstronaut

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    any "true" follower of god, even in your own wording you are already saying that there is a true believer and a false one, so basically you are superior to the fakes?

    Its nothing to be ashamed of exactly, its in our nature.
     
  10. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Oh the confusion when everyone thinks they are their own Pope. :confused:
     
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  11. I don't think IGY is implying that he's better than the "fakes." I would have said the same thing he said, and I wouldn't be implying that that makes me "better" than anyone else. It's just important that people who don't know God understand that pride isn't something He supports. So if someone were truly following God, they wouldn't be acting/thinking they are better than everyone else. In other words, there are a lot of people in the world who call themselves Christians, and many of them are not really following God. That's not a judgment I'm making, it's just a fact/observation. It's important that people know that, because when self-proclaimed "Christians" are running around with signs that say "God hates fags" (pardon my language, hate that word), then they are painting an awful, false picture of who God is. So if someone looks at that person to form an opinion of God and Christianity, their opinion isn't going to be founded on the truth of what we are really about.

    From my perspective, the only reason I have any wisdom or humility or peace or grace or forgiveness or whatever is because God has helped me to be that way. Therefore, there's nothing to boast about, because it's not about me, it's about Him.
     
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  12. IGY

    IGY Guest

    I am not ashamed James, because that is not what I was saying. :rolleyes:
     
  13. I'm an atheist born and raised. In recent years my sister has quietly started attending church and is now a full blown christian. I've asked her why but never really got a clear answer. Also, when I have asked religious people over the years what christianity does for them, or why I should believe, the conversation generally ends up with them telling me I will go to hell. Seems to be the default position of challenged christians.

    Interestingly, going back to the OP's point, I have found Muslims much more open to discussion.
     
    Eric'sBlue likes this.
  14. That's unfortunate that you've had that experience :/ I promise we're not all like that! Don't judge a whole community by a few people. We all make mistakes. We can't have the perfect responses to all of your questions all the time.
     
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  15. yoyo1

    yoyo1 Guest

    This is a sad, pathetic and rambling thread where the OP imputes the guilt of a few 'Christians' to the whole.
    I have my own criticisms of shallow evangelicals who are Biblical illiterate (as are most people who don't like Christians) sure, but give me a break. This is all whiney. If you want to talk more about it please message but this is so pathetic.
    How's that being frank?
     
  16. Phibz

    Phibz Fapstronaut

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    I've had bible thumpers at my door trying to sell me their belief. I've often asked of them, "Why do I need god?" I've never gotten a logical response. Only recited scriptures and other smoke-screens. But nothing remotely logical.
     
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  17. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your wonderful contribution.
     
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  18. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    I notice this, too.. I honestly I think it has to do with a major difference in culture. I think years of political correctness has taken it's toll: everyone's afraid &trying to be right, everyone's combative...I don't know but I hate it.
    Muslim cultures really are so much more relaxed, I used to live in Turkey. Loved it.
     
  19. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Modern day Christianity is anaemic [mere Christianity]. Sadly, it has been stripped of its tradition, art, culture, philosophy and religion [oh, I'm not religious]. The Puritans first stripped the churches of their art [the ones they didn't demolish], and now today the Protestants assemble in boxes devoid of all architecture and feeling. The music blasts out, and often competes with the world lacking any sense of the sublime and beautiful. It is a shadow of what it once was, a veneer, a sticking plaster, a lecture - hype not hope. This is why we look up to the more established traditions, with their living art and culture. Convert to a real Church.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  20. I cant help but feel that this is a highly biased opinion. You do not know the hearts of "modern day Christians." I can say with 100% honesty that my religion is not void of art, culture, tradition, philosophy, or religion. I'm sorry it appears that way to you, and perhaps it is that way for some, but it's a bit ridiculous to place that kind of a blanket statement on an entire religion. It's just simply not true.
     
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