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“The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die.”

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by William, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    Quitting porn, like living life well, is something that cannot be done from the sideline. One has to be prepared to stretch beyond the comfort zone, go beyond the comfort zone, reject the comfort zone, embrace the pain of pushing beyond "easy."

    As you know, Steve Prefontaine is a hero of mine. He was an American runner who died long before most of us here were even born. He was a "distance" runner, meaning 5-10 K typically. But in the vid below he dropped down to the 1 mile (1.6 K) to compete with what we would call short distance runners, aka sprinters. This is a short track, most miles here in the states are run in four laps, .4 K times 4. Pre knew the only way to win the race was to push it to the edge of his capabilities, to the edge of his endurance. I am not telling you you must push beyond your comfort zone 100% of the time, but I am telling you when quitting porn you will have to push beyond your comfort zone, and in living life well, embracing "easy" as a lifestyle is a formula for a boring life. Put porn down and go out and live life.

    It helps to have heros, examples, of people who lived their lives the way we aspire to. Pre is a hero of mine.

    This is a great clip of a great race by a hero of mine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjvHHwLHqc8

    There is no way this distance runner should have won the sprint. But, he pushed beyond his comfort zone.

    I want to see everyone here clean. Get out of your comfort zone, reject "easy".

    Peace.
     
  2. freedomwarrior

    freedomwarrior Fapstronaut

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    William, congrats on 8 months free of porn. btw, did you go hard mode at all in your healing? If so, how long?
     
  3. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    Hi freedomwarrior, to answer your question, what I consider hard mode and how it is defined in this forum are two different things. For me hard mode is no porn, no PMO, and no MO. This site defines hard mode by adding the additional "no sex." I have had sex regularly during the reboot. Initially, I was so wired to porn that I could not O during sex, then, later, to O during sex, I had to think of porn during sex. Now, clean, I am with the woman I am with, do not think of porn during sex, and O just fine. At this point my dopamine levels are back to normal and my brain's reward pathways have rewired back--completely back--to real sex with a real woman. Even if you don't have someone in your life, however, I think a 30 day hard mode, including no sex, could not hurt when rewiring.

    Peace, and good luck on your journey.
     
  4. freedomwarrior

    freedomwarrior Fapstronaut

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    William, how long do you think it took you to get clean, to get your dopamine levels back to normal? And how did you know when they are at normal? Any links would be great also.

    Thanks for your expertise.
     
  5. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    Hi freedomwarrior. How long to get clean and how long to get my dopamine levels back to normal? Those are two distinct questions with two distinct answers. I would say that within two weeks of absolutely NO porn, I started having long moments, as in almost full days, when I did not crave it. Understand, this is not just having no porn, it is avoiding hypersexualized thoughts, not thinking about it, not remembering it, not imagining it, not fantasizing; keeping sex out of your head as best you can. That said, when quitting I triggered on a lot of stuff people don't really consider porn, like cheerleaders, bikini pics, etc. When I say "triggered" I don't mean to relapse, I mean to dopamine rush. I would say after 90 days things got pretty balanced. The withdrawals come and go, sometimes very bad, sometimes just annoying. I go days now with no withdrawals, but I still avoid my triggers. I will never relapse to PMO but a good dopamine rush just makes my physically sick now, which is no fun. Along the way, around 3-4 months, I was strong enough to say with confidence I would never use again, meaning use porn to get high on dopamine. Up until then, though I meant I had quit it, there was always that little voice in the back of my head telling me I could use it if it got bad; but once I reached quit that voice said I would never use it no matter how bad it got.

    As for links:

    http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthread.php?2402-Get-educated-get-tools-and-learn-to-love-withdrawals

    Go to first page of above link, hit the first link. That is the Gary Wilson TED talk about pornography. once I saw that and understood what was happening in my head, I quit shortly thereafter. Porn is just a button you push to get a dopamine fix. It is stimulation and response, nothing else. If you want to quit the response you have to quit the stimulation.

    I hope this helps.

    Peace.
     
  6. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I really enjoyed the race clip. I've not been at my best at all lately and kind of running on autopilot but am reminded of a favourite Chinese proverb 'In a race of 100 miles 99 is half way' and we just got to keep going sometimes, even when it feels like we're running on empty! Keep running! :)
     
  7. freedomwarrior

    freedomwarrior Fapstronaut

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    William, thanks for the info and the link. I am off to see if the link is something i have seen before or not. I love watching many of them again as I always learn something new.

    OK, now for the dopamine. What does a dopamine rush feel like? How do you know you have had one? I do know I must have had my fair share of rushes in my past considering my porn story. (not really a story, but my porn life). I just do not have a memory of them. Thanks for your help.
     
  8. zyzz

    zyzz Fapstronaut

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    Hey william I definitely know about prefontaine I went to MHS in the 00's
     
  9. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    @ zyzz, fantastic, then you know he won a lot of races he should not have on paper just because he had the will to suffer to do it, even if it felt like he was dying.

    @ freedomewarrior, I know exactly what you mean, when I was living a porn life I did not know I was getting a dopamine fix either, mostly because I had never heard of "dopamine". Now that I know what it is I know that feeling I got when spending a few hours in front of a computer clicking on categories and hundreds of thumbnails was a dopamine fix. That feeling is the reason we can sit there for hours. Dopamine is what made the search fascinating. Understand that dopamine feels great but it feels great not because we find what we are looking for, but in the looking for something, in and of itself. Once porn highjacks our reward system we love looking at porn, searching for porn. Dopamine is part of our brain's primitive hunter-gatherer reward system and that system rewards looking for sex and looking for food--not just getting it, but looking for it. As applied to porn for many of us that means sitting in front of a computer clicking on image after image. Now, if I trigger, I am sure a brief dopamine high still feels good, but in two ways it is bad for me: 1) it is bad because on some level even if I feel good I know it is going away and I am going to experience withdrawals--so there is trepidation at the pain that is coming and 2) the pain that comes from withdrawals.

    @Mark, in a race of 100 miles, 99 is half way there. I think you just described life, brother.

    Peace
     
  10. freedomwarrior

    freedomwarrior Fapstronaut

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    So, what does it feel like? Or is it that feling of anticipation that the necxt click is going to be the best ever? Is it any different than opening email and anticipating what new email I have? Or going here and anticipating a Private Mesage or the responses to my questions like you just gave me? I think i get it but really want to make sure.
     
  11. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    Hi freedomwarrior, I had to think about your question for a minute or two. It is a fascinating question. I translate the question as "what does good feel like?" I am a romantic at heart and so I don't wish to reduce everything to a chemical reaction, but this problem, "this problem" being addiction to porn, is essentially a chemical reaction. We are wired to hunt. Hunting itself is its own reward, meaning, that part of our brain's reward center that rewards, rewards hunting with a dopamine release. It is not that we are rewarded when we find what we are hunting for--we are--but that is a different chemical. We get a dopamine release, that is we get a high, from the act of hunting itself, finding aside. We are wired to hunt two things at least--sex and food. When it comes to porn "hunting" becomes "searching". Problem is, reality is, that part of our brain that rewards the hunt for something sexual also rewards searching for porn. That primintive part of our brain that rewards the desire to reproduce--perfectly natural, harmless, and necessary to promulgation of the species--rewards the "next click" on porn the same way. The difference between the desire to reproduce and seeking porn is that seeking porn is an activity that can now be done 24/7; it can be engaged in endlessly, and it never needs to stop with one image, we can view millions of images. And it is not just the hunt, the seeking, the searching (in the case of porn clicking on the next new and interesting image), but that porn offers something that reality really does not--constant newness, constant novelty. Our brains don't merely reward hunting for things, but rewards also hunting for something new, something different. That is why a lot of guys in the middle of porn addiction end up watching stuff far outside their actual sexual preferences or even orientation--it is different, and for whatever reason, that part of the brain that rewards the hunt amplifies the reward for hunting something new. The simple, chemical, bioligical explaination for that is that we are wired not just to find a sexual partner, but to reproduce with as many new, different, sexual partners as opportunity allows. Porn offers endless partners, at least that is how that primitive reward center in the brain interprets it.

    But to answer the question, how does it actually feel?--I can only describe it by anology. Once, more than a decade ago, I went to the dentist for a bad tooth. The dentist performed some sort of procedure and I left his office with a prescription for hydrocodone. This was long before I had ever heard of porn addiction, aka dopamine addiction. It was also before it was commonly understood that hydrocodone was a highly addictive pain medicine. I took one pill when I got home. I did not take a second one. The feeling I got from hydrocodone was not that my problems were solvable, but rather, that I had no problems at all. While I was on hydrocode any problem in my life, even the ones very imminent, very important, and very solvable, were on the other side of the horizon, a million miles away. It was the most content feeling I have ever felt, but even while feeling it, on some intellectual level, I knew the feeling was false. After that experience I understand addiction to that drug and I will never take it again. It felt great, but it was a false high.

    Do you know what hydrocodone is? Hydrocode is synthetic dopamine. Dopamine is the chemical/molecule released in normal levels to sexual thoughts, but is hyperreleased in response to porn and thoughts of porn. Herion also caused dopamine release, among other things, which is one of the reasons it, like porn, is so addictive. I don't say porn is as addictive, but the same stimulus-response happens, or something quite similar. When in the midst of porn addiction, clicking on the next image, feels great, it feels good, it feels like being high on something, but it is a false high, an artifically produced high that comes by hyper-stimulating your dopamine release mechanism through hypersexualized thoughts.

    I hope this answers your question, because it is the best answer I can come up with.

    Peace
     
  12. freedomwarrior

    freedomwarrior Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. Let me dwell on this for a bit.

    FW
     
  13. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    I just saw this article today.

    http://www.aol.com/article/2014/04/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk3&pLid=464851

    It is about the first woman to officially complete the Boston Marathon. Her name is Kathrine Switzer. She was physically attacked for running. They said it was a man's only game. It was 1967, before most of us were born, way before High Speed Internet Porn. Why, you ask, do I post about marathons and women in a porn addiction forum. Well, quitting porn is like running a marathon. It takes everything we have and along that route it feels like dying. Along the way we whisper to ourselves why we should quit, why we should just step off the track, start to walk, go home, go to bed. But I want everyone reading this to know that you can finish this race if you choose to run it. Quitting porn I mean. It won't kill you. It will challenge you, but you can do it. And quitting porn is not just for men any more, we have a lot of women runners these day too, so to speak. Shout out to cocorosie.

    In three days I will be nine months clean, no porn, no PMO, no MO. In three days and 10 years I will be three days and ten years clean.

    Get educated, get tools, learn to love withdrawals.

    Put in some miles my brothers and sisters.

    Peace.
     
  14. Good post and I will use the iea though I o not view or use porn. I have had an issue with masturbating which i want to get under control so it does not control me and just putting it completely behind is a great image.
     
  15. Sufficient Grace

    Sufficient Grace Fapstronaut

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    Thanks William. Great post. 9 months is a great achievement.
     
  16. Markguy

    Markguy Fapstronaut

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    Very inspirational, William! Thank you and congrats on your great milestones! I've come to realize as well there is "no middle ground." My addiction goes way back but I've actively struggled to overcome it the last 5 years with limited success. I couldn't go 4 days. But coming to nofap I'm almost 20 days and counting. The key so far has been the no middle ground. Any artificial stimulating content is now porn for me. I'm learning to avoid anything that causes a dopamine trigger.

    I love your quote. I have to say I'm recently discouraged though because I had been a runner (5k flat and trail races), but my doctor said no running for awhile. I ruptured disks in my neck and he thinks it's combo of chronic stress, muscular tension and running impact. I was even trying Chi Running and other lower impact forms before my injury but it still happened. Pre-porn I lived to the max but porn began to numb my life as I checked out more and more. Running became a way to fight back, but perhaps I overdid it without proper form and a lot of pavement running. I'm hoping I can restart at some point.

    Wishing you the best of continued success!
     
  17. SlimSeanie

    SlimSeanie Fapstronaut

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    This is awesome. I messed up today but I am excited to start trying to succeed again. You have inspired me
     
  18. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    I have drawn the comparison between quitting porn and running a race. Both have a beginning a middle and end. And at some point in both you will be challenged, you will wonder why you began in the first place, you will want to quit, you will feel like hell, you will step way outside your comfort level. The difference between those who finish the race and those who do not is that when you reach the point where you feel you cannot go on...you go on. Whether you cross the finish line first or last when quitting porn does not matter. What matters is that you cross the finish line.

    I have heroes in running. Edwin Moses is one of my heroes. I could make good arguments that he is in the top ten athletes of all time. This video is Moses winning the 1984 400 meters hurdles, gold medal. You ask, what does a race that was run 30 years ago, before most of us were even alive, have to do with quitting porn. Brothers, sisters, quitting porn is not really about quitting porn; once you begin to quit porn you will realize that quitting porn is a metaphor--for living. And I wish to see everyone who reads this come alive.

    I am no hurdler, but the race Edwin won is a model for how we can quit porn addiction. At the beginning of the race there is a false start. When quitting porn you will have false starts. He begins the race on his knees, with his hand on the ground, looking down. When quitting porn this is essentially how you begin. But once the race is begun, once he hits his stride, he is beauty in movement. He has a method. When quitting porn you need a method. He did not come to this race without preparation, without an understanding of what will be required, he has studied the race in advance. Studying, preparing, getting educated about porn addiction, practicing, is necessary to overcome the problem. By the time of this race he had won 104 consecutive races. 13 steps between every hurdle. Quitting porn has many hurdles, but I have absolute confidence that if you prepare, you can make it over every one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDW10utt4lY

    Find a hero some place. Be like them. Don't be afraid of a suicide pace. It is better to live fast than live badly. At 37 seconds in this video Edwin comes vertical, he is no longer looking down, he is not looking behind his self, he has already won and he knows it. Maybe some of you are there, right where he is. I want to see you cross that finish line.

    Peace.
     
  19. William

    William Fapstronaut

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    So, this is either amusing or ironic. At least to me. I recently ran a 10K. About 1/3 of the way in I knew my heart just was not in it. I wanted to quit, wanted to walk off to the side and lay down. The pain in my sides was sharp and shooting. And it was just about then I had the amusing or ironic thought:

    "I am a man who quit porn. I went through hell to do it. It hurt but I did not stop. A
    man who can quit porn cannot be stopped. I won't break under torture and I won't stop
    running this thing."

    And I didn't. I finished it. I even got faster the second half because I knew no matter how hard I pushed, failure was not an option.

    In a few weeks I will be 10 months clean. No porn, no PMO, no MO. On the days it was hard I often told myself I am a distance runner. Now it's turned around, now when I get tired while running, I tell myself I am a man that quit porn, nothing can stop me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Vyrr4f-z8

    Peace. Keep pushing.
     
  20. Shai_Halud

    Shai_Halud Fapstronaut

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    Very cool post William, thank you.
     

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