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The Generation Gap

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by ixpieth, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    The first post I put up on NoFap was entitled "Am I too old for this?", and it was a genuine question as I realised that my age category (64) was way above the "40+" which was the 'maximum' group catered for, and, the VAST majority of users on the site either in the 'Newbie' section or the groups categories, were UNDER 30 years old.

    Now I think I understand the basic problems encountered with high speed internet porn, (which I have had comparatively very little exposure to), or internet gaming, (which I have never done) and addictions in general. Reading a great deal on brain development explains to me the problems I have had when some replies to my posts were received, and in a broader sense, have led to an understanding of "the generation gap".

    For instance, I did not appreciate being told by a youngster that "smoking is all in the brain" and easy to give up, nor see any relevance in a teenager cutting and pasting a slab out of a Buddhist explanation about how to stop smoking, so I slapped them down straight away. I still do not think they are relevant and am still a non-smoker after giving up a 50 year smoking addiction thanks to Allan Carr's book, and am as resolved in that as I am resolved that I have quit PMO for good after less than 10 days - hope I'm right.

    I have read several journals of people who are much further down the road of abstinence than I am, and see the daily vacillations that threaten the incredible progress being made by teenagers and young men who are making terrific efforts to clean up their lives after a very unfortunate beginning. I know for example I would be dead by now were I in similar situations and still a young man.

    I do not envy young people the trials and hurdles necessary to "make it" into adulthood today, and I congratulate every single person who has the unbridled courage to shake off peer pressure and follow what must be a very faint voice in the back of their minds which is saying "this is nowhere, get out of here". I wish everyone strength, courage and love.

    I do not have children, all I have is my experience growing up in an all male household after divorce (father and brother, my dad got custody of the kids), I did not have a computer until 1995 or a mobile phone until 10 years ago. I have never had cable t.v. and yet the phrase "the generation gap" was as used and as popular 50 years ago as it probably is now.

    I know it still exists as one young man I replied to (who was introduced to porn by his father's (?) subscription to porn on satellite t.v.) suggesting he talk to his parents about THE problem (I guess his father must be PMO-ing too), he thought it a good idea but would not try it.

    So the generation gap, as I understand it, A BIG COMMUNICATION PROBLEM, still exists and although it has caused many problems in the past IS CAUSING MUCH WORSE PROBLEMS NOW.

    All this came together and a light bulb came on when I watched another Gary Wilson YouTube clip (the 3rd I've seen from him) called "The Adolescent Brain meets high speed internet porn", - AND HERE I THINK THE VERY IMPORTANT WORDS ARE - THE ADOLESCENT BRAIN.

    This is very recent research mentioned in Wilson's TED X talk and amplified with particular reference to brain development. Most NoFap YouTube clips put out by NoFappers can appreciate the developing brain's susceptibility and deviation from the norm forced by addiction - particularly internet porn, and the incredible rush of 20 somethings seeking help when erectile dysfunction and desensitisation becomes a major problem as the teenager passes to adulthood.

    WHAT IS ALSO (I think) EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IS THE FACT THAT THE FRONTAL CORTEX OF THE BRAIN - THE "EXECUTIVE" OR DECISION MAKER - IS NOT FULLY DEVELOPED UNTIL THE AGE OF 25 YEARS OLD. Given the neurological deviations that are now being discovered through dopamine and deltafosb distortions, it doesn't seem surprising that decision making can be particularly uncertain.

    Ever since I was 16 I thought it absolutely crazy that at that age I had to CHOOSE WHAT I WANTED TO DO FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, at that age I had no concept whatsoever what 50 YEARS MEANT. At 16 I wanted to play soccer, went for a trial at a local professional club, wasn't good enough and was shattered. This was before Madonna came along and said "be what you want to be", and I'm sure that has brought to mind amongst countless young men watching porn that they wanted to be a pornstar !!!!!

    SO to me this answers a lot of questions relating to THE GENERATION GAP - it's a 2 way street.

    One way is a generation who has the experience of older males who have not had brain path deviation through high speed Internet porn or drug addiction, BUT HAVE NO HANDLE ON GENDER EQUITY DUE TO THE PATRIARCHAL SYSTEM THAT THEY HAVE GROWN UP IN, AND ARE MAINTAINING, and think well I don't see anything wrong with porn.

    And the other way is a younger generation WHICH HAS KNOWN NOTHING ELSE BUT TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT WHICH HAS BROUGHT TOTALLY UNFORSEEN PROBLEMS WHICH PUSH GENDER EQUITY TO THE FOREFRONT OF THEIR AS YET UNDEVELOPED BRAIN THROUGH A DISGUST OF THE OBJECTIFICATION AND DESENSITISATION OF THE FEMALE SPECIES. They have a definitive appreciation of the problems with gender inequity through a porn experience which produces direct physical problems.

    If you've got this far well done, I'm not a twitter person . . . .
     
  2. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    Hi Abel,

    Yes and no Abel, I and many 'feminists' that I know feel today's "equality" is a myth. I agree that "feminism" has made standards that would "seem" to be adhered to, but more often than not are "lip service" or "tick a box" solutions that have no meaningful impact, as you said, you have first hand experience on the building site, which is just another workplace. And, this is ONLY in western industrialised society, less than 1/3 of the worlds population.

    Look how the patriarchal system operates in Mexico for example, don't worry there's subtitles . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saccMYFRubM "El Sentido de la Justicia" - (The sense of justice)

    Have a look as well at the United Nations statistics for domestic violence, not too sure of exact figures but they are rising everywhere, first world countries included.

    You have to start looking at organisations such as the "White Ribbon Movement", formed after the "Montreal Massacre" (Google it, you'll be amazed), to find an organisation OF MEN who are lobbying for gender equity.

    This YouTube clip by Jackson Katz, "Violence against Women, its a man's issue" tells me that gender equity is not a battle that's being won. I think Gary Wilson quotes one survey, "THAT COULD NOT FIND A SINGLE MALE UNDER 25 THAT HAD NOT LOOKED AT PORNOGRAPHY" - there is no control group - NoFap IS IT !!!

    What I am sure of is, and I think that as all NoFappers would agree, sexual stereotypes are being exposed to men more through the ILL EFFECTS of internet porn than any Feminist movement.

    I wonder for example, if high speed internet porn DID NOT produce erectile dysfunction, how many men would realise, (i.e. UNDERSTAND not just PAY LIP SERVICE TO the fact), that by watching pornography they were treating women as SEX OBJECTS ?

    I think Feminism raised the issue and set out the problem which previously was unknown, or if not unknown, ignored. To the extent that Feminism has united a gender it has succeeded, but I think gender equality is still very much in its infancy.

    My point however, when I first began writing this, was to explore the generation gap, and try to find how close we were to CLOSING it. The journals I have read tell me there is NO communication on this issue that bridges the generation gap and the adolescent brain is left to sort the mess out alone, SNAFU, as Roger Daltry said, "I hope I die before I get old" - (My Generation - The Who)
     
  3. waltz#1

    waltz#1 Fapstronaut

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    Hi Iexpieth, thank you for posting. To be honest, when I first read your post, I really wasn't sure what your point was. I honestly felt like you were just sharing your experience in being a different generation with a pmo addiction, but now, if I understand you correctly, you are asking the younger generation's opinion on how close we are to closing this "generation gap" at least in regard to sexual addiction? If I am misunderstanding you, I would like to apologize in advance because that means I'm about to go off on a completely different tangent.

    I am 25 years old. I got addicted to pmo at about 12 years old. I also grew up in a pretty sexually oppressed, yet by societal standards, normal family. My father worked hard and did his best to raise me with proper values. Sadly I feel that his naivety and general emotional detachment made it difficult for him to relate to me and properly prepare me for the dangers of virtual sex being at my fingertips 24/7. I am also part of a generation who's parents are still very ignorant when it comes to computers and modern advancement, let alone high speed internet porn. This made it very easy for me to hide my addiction from my parents. No matter how "good intentioned" they may have been. I didn't get my first taste of porn from my father's "secret stash" and to this day I honestly don't believe my father currently looks at porn. But, I may never know.

    I know it seems like I am rambling but I actually do have a point. I am no expert and my opinion probably doesn't mean a whole lot, but you asked, so here it is.

    I believe that the current struggles my generation has dealt with in regards to instant gratification will help us bridge this gap you speak of. Maybe I am just as naive as I claimed my father was, but I think that these current struggles are helping to give me insight, open my mind and strengthen me to help teach my future children of the dangers of of instant gratification and any new type of addiction that will come in the future. I truthfully feel that a lot of these things are cyclical. I believe that family values are working their way back because our generation has been so devoid of it, that those of us that come out the end alive don't want our children repeating our mistakes. So we are going to fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening.

    You also brought up some great points about gender equality that I mostly agree with but won't get into because I've already rambled long enough.

    Either way, thank you for posting and I genuinely appreciate your input and wisdom.
     
  4. hellfire2

    hellfire2 Fapstronaut

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    This is huge topic of debate you have opened with far too many variables on their own (PMO and gender equality) let alone relating them. Yes there is definitely a link. But I think you would find it difficult to argue gender equality has become worse in the last 20 years. If you look at the statistics females are now beginning to dominate the professional fields I.e. lawyers, doctors, academics and other high profile professions. In fact I would even go further and say that PMO is damaging young male brains to the extent we cannot complete with females.
    I do agree that we may objectify woman more but objectification was big even before internet porn with just MO and females often objectify males too. Infact heavily addicted guys i think have lost touch with reality and almost become afraid or bitter to women (Hence a fantasies that often includes humiliation and degradation of women)
    I think this is an interesting discussion but as I said before involves too many variables.

    I think apart from the select females in the sex industry and mothers caught up in porn addiction with their partners. PMO maybe harming the male gender more so than the female.

    I'm happy to be wrong on this but this is my opinion on PMO's effect on gender equality.
     
  5. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    The reason I started this post was to see if the generation gap ;

    1/ Still existed
    2/ Was a contributing factor to PMO
    3/ Had a positive/negative effect on gender equity

    So yes waltz#1 you were spot on and not wasting anyone's time - thanks for your response. I have to repeat, I do not have children, my elder brother does though - 2 boys now 30+ year olds. In the 70's he and his wife role swapped and he stayed home and raised the kids whilst his wife worked full time. Both have open stable relationships with my brother of which I am very envious.

    I can't help thinking that similar relationships would have at least 'helped' situations like PMO, but as your experience shows waltz, whether they would have been avoided is another matter as it takes 2 to have a talk. I agree that this is a warning for your future and will lead to very positive outcomes when you begin a family.

    Being "out of touch" with younger generations is hard to take for me, I find it disappointing to know that serious problems are occurring to and impacting on the "youth of today". Throughout the whole of my life I have believed that "the youth is the future", and I suppose transplanted my ideas of relationships onto the parents of todays "movers and shakers" to the point that I thought the generation gap was a thing of the past. Where honesty and openness were the order of the day.

    It is a big topic and there is big connections with gender equity, this is what the Australian Govt Workplace Gender Equity Agency has to say about it hellfire ;

    "Many countries worldwide, including Australia, have made significant progress towards gender equality in recent decades, particularly in areas such as education. However, women continue to earn less than men, are less likely to advance their careers as far as men, and are more likely to spend their final years in poverty." (https://www.wgea.gov.au/learn/about-workplace-gender-equality)

    I think if you were stood next to a guy at work and he was earning more money than you were for doing exactly the same job, you'd be pissed off right?

    The situation gets worse when you consider that 1 woman every week is killed through domestic violence in Australia, other stats here ;
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-editorial/time-to-act-on-domestic-violence-20140307-34cqt.html

    Your right in Australia the situation isn't getting worse, it's just not getting any better ;
    http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/agdbasev7wr/bocsar/documents/pdf/bb61.pdf

    I think the term they use is "stable", which I think is a pathetic way of describing the fact that we still get 1 woman killed every week through domestic violence. I also think you need to look at your statement about "objectifying women".

    The whole point of this exercise is to STOP doing that altogether. I would point you to a very good YouTube clip by Laura Bates "Everyday Sexism" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhjsRjC6B8U
    I think it would give you an idea of what the real problem is.
     
  6. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    Spot on Abel, I just hope this isn't like climate change. Remember in 2008 everyone was an environmentalist after K Rudd won an election and signed onto the Kyoto Protocol. Post Copenhagen and the Brisbane floods look what happened, we got Abbottised and now Australia is the world's No 1 Climate Criminal.

    This is what I like about Krishnamurti when he's talking about a "fundamental change" . . .
     
  7. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    Hi Abel,

    Don't know much about salaries, for the last 35 years I've been self employed and everyone else I know in the architectural services sector was the same. I think we are running into the same scenario as pre-union days with as you say corporations out to screw the individual down as much as possible.

    Oh to be in the 1% . . . .

    What I just found re "the generation gap" was something that was totally unknown 50, 40, even 30 years ago,

    I'll just give the headline and a link, but if ever there was a sick generation that needed parental guidance it's this one and now . . . .

    "Teen Allegedly Sexually Assaulted At A Concert As People Watched And Filmed Her"

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/201...-videos/?icamp=recirc&iref=gravity&imed=rr1x4

    Everyone can be a porn star now.
     
  8. perusan

    perusan Fapstronaut

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    My observations from this site is that the generation gap is wider than ever. The ignorance of the old about what young people are doing, feeling, accessing is one of the driving forces of PMO addiction.

    I'm in my 40s and access to P was usually limited to what you could get off the top shelf from a newsagent or, if you were lucky enough, what you could find in the bushes somewhere. Youngsters won't even understand what I mean about bushes - hell, I never understood why you could find P mags in bushes at the park other than the fact that a physical thing, a magazine, can be found by a parent or spouse so I can only assume they were bought/stolen, used in the park in the bushes (where else do you go?) and then discarded because you can't take them home.

    Because P was such a physical thing you were physically accountable for it. You could be physically found with it, confronted with it. Now, in a patriarchal society you would imagine if you were discovered with P by a man, a father etc. you might not get treated harshly, and maybe that was the case - but my feeling was that P, M and "mucking around with that filth" was still an attitude that existed as a hangover from the puritanical Victorian era when sex like that was not to be paraded around. You grew up to fear P.

    However, once P stops being physical it stops being easily detectable, it stops being accountable. In a way, it stops being real. Instead it becomes easy. The birth of the internet was a very innocent time for online P in comparison with today - I imagine because the source of it was from those who were used to the physical stuff. It was P that followed the rules dictated by governments/laws that limited what printed P could portray - and also what members of the public were prepared to admit to liking. I am talking about mid/late nineties. So anyone younger than 25 would have no idea what it was like. But as the internet grew, as more people joined in, so P became more accessible, more daring, more extreme, more sophisitacted. Just more.

    If you read the newbies section every day you will see, at a guess, at least 50 to 60 percent of newcomers are aged 16 to 30 and the majority of whom started experiencing P on the internet from the age of 8 through to their teens. To them that is what P is. There was no physical restriction on access like there was when you could only get it in a shop. There was a fear of being discovered, and whilst there were warnings around, what bigger thrill for a child is there than demonstrating they are clever than an adult.

    That is when the generation gap became more pronounced than ever. Through the sheer ignorance of what that sort of access could do to a young mind, what sort of thing, sort of volume was available. Parents around the world bought computers for their children for educational reasons, put it in their children's rooms and expected the computer to "educate". Their sole contribution was to buy the computer. They didn't know how to use it. They didn't know what was out there. They had no idea of the dangers. They passed the responsibility on to the very children they were supposed to be responsible for.

    A whole generation's innocence and ignorance has led to the corruption and destruction of their children. It has created a society with a hidden secret of sexism, misogyny, sexual violence, distorted sexual views and expectations, body image problems, objectification all because, rather than sexual awakening happening from a first kiss in an after school disco or a walk home with a girl you fancy, it is instead watching a woman being..... You know I don't need to continue. YOU HAVE ALL SEEN IT.

    And it will continue too. Because of the shame of what has happened no-one will speak out. No-one from that older generation will stand up and say "this is insane". They are still ashamed of P. It is taboo. And now we are meant to be open, to be free, to be unrestricted. Those people who first were corrupted as children are now getting jobs and forming the next society where what was acceptable for them will be acceptable for the next generation. The generation gap gets bigger and bigger. Still there is no protection for our children. Still no-one takes responsibility.

    My rant is over - but there is one thing left to say. I don't have any answer. I can only see the problem. I WILL ensure my children are safe and I will make sure my friends are aware of the issue, but beyond that, how do you solve a generation gap of ignorance.
     
  9. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for your comment Perusan, I really appreciated it as I had commented on some young men's posts and asked if they had spoken to their parents - generally the answer was "no, and it's not on either"

    I am 64, and have no children, so I am viewing this from the outside in the main, and even though I have wasted so much time on pornography over the last 12 years + have found it fairly easy to give up since I found this site. Not what younger people are experiencing I think.

    I am appalled what social media has done to pornography, turned everyone into a film maker and their is a particularly nasty trend now of young women drugged or drunk being filmed and exposed - very very sad.

    Even sadder to think my generation has "overseen" this happening . . . .
    thanks again
    ixpieth
     
  10. Hmmmm ...

    I think the new generation can handle internet porn better than the old generation.

    I 'm 42, I have two nephews (12 & 14), they have been grown up with smartphones and internet of course, and they very openly talk about porn !!


    Don't forget: WE have been grown up with books and with "slow" information. Internet came up when we were about age 20, and then the informaton "flood" began - it was "new" for us!

    The NEW generation however, is BORN with the internet. They are totally used to it. And therefore, they can probably better handle it.

    Also, young people see the failures of the old generation and can make it better.
    Therefore, don't let's underestimate the next generation.
     
  11. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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  12. Hotshot

    Hotshot Fapstronaut

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    Found my first porn magazine at 6 years old. Started PMO at 9 until this year, at 23. I am not old, and I found my first magazines in a dumpster and the bushes beside it, thank you.
     
  13. perusan

    perusan Fapstronaut

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    Yes, as you imply (I think), and what I forgot to say was, what ever your route it can still lead to addiction. I just feel that the generation that knows about the bushes and dumpster route (not necessarily have experienced it themselves) are not likely to be able to relate, understand or appreciate the high-speed internet route.

    FreedomFlight, I think this is the error that we are making. I don't think young people see the failures of the old geneation, because the failures are not there to be seen. Did you know about P addiction before you found nofap? Did anyone truly understand it before coming here?

    It is a taboo addiction. The media can make films and TV about alcoholics and drug addicts. Their struggles and redemptions or downfalls have been our entertainment for years. But P addiction is not held up for all to see. We do not point to this and say, "Look at what is happening. Look how wrong it is". There are no lessons for the young generation to draw from. All there is is the internet they are born to. Where P is free and easily available. And to a young mind, surely if it is free and readily available then it must be a) acceptable, b) their internet-given right to access it. If a parent says "don't look at this", but then walks away and says no more about it and does nothing to prevent it, to the child in me, that is an empty warning. It just means that my parents frown upon it, but it cannot be an important threat to me or else my parents would do something more.

    I don't underestimate the younger generation. I underestimate the older generation in providing the correct education to children who are not equipped to handle it on their own.

    I started a thread a while ago asking how many parents have taken steps to protect their children from internet P. Not one parent replied. The only people who replied were young adults and children who said their parents did nothing or far too little. I truly believe the generation gap is failing the younger generation.
     
  14. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    I think the point is that there is still a generation gap which means no communication DESPITE the "enlightened" times we live in.

    A friend sent me a research paper on "hogging" and I used it to demonstrate that the behaviour of older men who congregate in bars selecting a woman for a gang bang (sorry but this is a disgusting "trend") is being mirrored by teenagers all over the U.S. who, like their parents drug or ply alcohol into a young girl, use her, film her and post it on social media. There are dozens of examples here;
    http://thinkprogress.org/tag/rape-culture/

    So youngsters are now repeating the male dominated patriarchal society to the enth degree. And what can parents do? Say no you can't go to the Keith Urban concert (where the latest "act" took place), no you can't go to the party ?

    Children now have the ability to "divorce" parents and be supported by the government as was my brothers experience with one of his children - as soon as they are 16 (in Australia), parents have no control or way of enforcing anything.

    I remember the beginnings of this when I was at university studying philosophy in the early 70's, and a subject called "the rights of a child" - when I was a child I had no "rights". I'm not saying that was a good thing or bad thing, but compared to the complete lack of respect for anything in the "rape culture" that's emerging, and what appears to be a widening generation gap, I ask myself;
    ARE THINGS GETTING BETTER OR ARE THINGS GETTING WORSE.
     
  15. hellfire2

    hellfire2 Fapstronaut

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    I think we are still looking at this wrong. The issues here are the miss understanding or unawareness from older generation. THEY NEVER HAD INTERNET PORN. They don't understand the damage it does so are unaware of the situation. So we cannot blame them. We can educate.
    Also one of the main issues is the taboo and shame associated with porn that is why people who are religious or see porn as wrong are more likely to be addicted (not the only ones). So we must explain it without bringing shame. Rather look at the facts it's like a drug which is addictive and harmful.
     
  16. hellfire2

    hellfire2 Fapstronaut

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    In response to your gender equality report. I would say that the gender salary inequality is there and I do not disagree but I do not believe Internet porn has not much to do with it. This difference has been steadily decreasing over time and Internet porn is a relatively new phenomenon.
    I am not saying that gender equality is balanced. I am saying that Internet porn is probably harming male side with the effect that it is harming their education. Look at education system. Females are now out performing males on average in every area maths, science and English. This is in university too. I am stating that Internet pornography which is new. Is harming the future male generation on a wider scale than the female (I am not condoning the disgusting atrocities commited against woman). I am looking at the bigger picture. The next generation.
     
  17. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    Hellfire 2,

    We run the risk of circular arguments when we start by saying ; "heavily addicted guys i think have lost touch with reality and almost become afraid or bitter to women (Hence a fantasies that often includes humiliation and degradation of women)"

    From my last post;

    One pornography industry veteran told Jensen:

    I’d really like to show what I believe the men want to see: violence against women. I firmly believe that we serve a purpose by showing that. The most violence we can get is the cum shot in the face. Men get off behind this, because they get even with all the women they can’t have. We try to inundate the world with orgasms to the face.


    AND, a quote from the guy in the bar ;

    this sounds kind of bad, we uh, have you ever heard of a rodeo? Usually on a night when a bet like that happens we do a rodeo. And we get pictures of it, usually the girl gets pretty pissed. But it’s funny, we think it’s funny.

    SO WHICH CAME FIRST, THE HEAVY ADDICTION TO PORN OR THE BITTERNESS AND HATRED OF WOMEN ???

    The fact that women are outperforming men at school and university is totally irrelevant. WHY SHOULD THAT BE AN ISSUE UNLESS YOU THINK A WOMAN'S PLACE IS IN THE KITCHEN ?

    In Australia in particular women doing well at school is mainly due to 2 things "SHE'LL BE RIGHT MATE", and, the number of Asian students in the country who outperform the locals anyway, particularly Asian girls, who, because their situation is far worse than Australian girls with far less opportunities, work their backsides off to do well.

    The basic fact is that POWER in all societies is held by MEN, do you feel threatened by the fact that women are doing well in school ? THAT FACT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXISM OR THE TENDENCY TO HUMILIATION AND RAPE OF WOMEN.

    Have a look at Laura Bates YouTube clip "Everyday Sexism" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhjsRjC6B8U and try and put yourself in a woman's place, try understanding how a woman would feel.

    I would be EXTREMELY disappointed if this site was ONLY about getting your erection back and not rethinking how this MALE dominated society should change.
     
  18. hellfire2

    hellfire2 Fapstronaut

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    You still misunderstand my point we seeking equality. Should not the kids be getting the same grades no matter the gender. Yes females are doing well at school and I think it's great! I fear that porn is retarding the male youth. That is not equality. That is one gender being harmed by a targeted nasty addiction.

    I'm not going to make comment on the race remark. That is another debate.

    'SO WHICH CAME FIRST, THE HEAVY ADDICTION TO PORN OR THE BITTERNESS AND HATRED OF WOMEN ???'
    I could be wrong but I believe in the addicts case self hate/bitterness came first. They saw porn as a child (probably very softcore). They felt a natural attraction to it and we're caught and made to feel bad. This self loathing came a perpetual vicious cycle over time. . Of looking at porn to feel good and then the guilt and shame for doing something wrong and further self loathing. I explained in your 'whose in control here?' thread why abuse and degradation of women come into the addiction so I will not repeat it here.

    On your note about rape. I sincerely believe no one on this forum is pro rape. I think most people are sick of porn and it's artificial replacement for intimacy. I completely agree women have suffered from men this has been happening long before advent of Internet porn. I think the people with ED and porn addiction are not the people commiting these heinous crimes but rather Internet allowing groups like ones you have noted to exist and advertise their activity.

    I agree this is a male dominated world and that is not right, but I do also see glimmers of change we have made progress but there always more to be done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  19. ixpieth

    ixpieth Fapstronaut

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    Ok lets analyse what you are saying here hellfire 2

    1/ I fear that porn is retarding the male youth. That is not equality. That is one gender being harmed by a targeted nasty addiction

    You seem to think that girls getting better exam results is because of a "conspiracy" by the pornography industry and now we have an unequal society which favours women ?

    2/They felt a natural attraction to it and we're caught and made to feel bad.

    Men who watch pornography are VICTIMS? You can only speak for yourself hellfire2, don't try and make excuses for everyone. What about the thrill ? What about the excitement of seeing a naked woman ? Do you think men become addicted and full of self hate and loathing the first time they watch pornography ? Don't remember seeing that in any of Gary Wilson's talks.

    3/I think most people are sick of porn and it's artificial replacement for intimacy.

    I don't agree at all, Porn is now a multi BILLION $ INDUSTRY. It is being included in the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of many countries, as is prostitution (which is what pornography is). It's becoming MAINSTREAM hellfire2, - You seem to think that men are looking for intimacy when looking at porn?

    4/This is why they replace it with degrading and sometimes horrific acts as it will spark an emotional response to keep it novel, interesting. . As without this porn would become mundane and boring. The porn industry requires a human connection, an emotion to go with the sex. They cannot replicate true intimacy.

    You seem to think that men who look at "ordinary porn" will naturally progress to looking at BDSM and sadism BECAUSE they can't find true intimacy ? I can't ever remember watching a porn film that tried to capture my "EMOTIONS" - I would say that progress to BDSM never appealed to me and the majority of film clips I saw on websites were NOT BDSM/SADISM, and whenever I saw a clip like that it turned me OFF.
    But then, each to his own.

    5/Porn relies on hate and self loathing. Fix this and you will come some way to fixing yourself.

    I sort of half agree with this, hate and SELF loathing - NO. Fix this and you will fix yourself YES, YES, YES. - All the hate and loathing is directed at women, if you hated and loathed yourself during masturbation you would NEVER come. Take the hate and self loathing away from women, websites like this allow you to do that.

    As I posted the last time ;

    One pornography industry veteran told Jensen:
    I’d really like to show what I believe the men want to see: violence against women. I firmly believe that we serve a purpose by showing that. The most violence we can get is the cum shot in the face. Men get off behind this, because they get even with all the women they can’t have.


    I find it amazing that MEN in particular seem to feel "victimised" at all by pornography, yes I'm sure there is "shame" immediately AFTER someone has had a wank. BUT, that disappears the second that someone starts looking at porn again.

    Pornography is something that men CREATED themselves to privately and personally maintain their "virtual" physical domination over women. SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE OFTEN UNABLE TO DO IN A RELATIONSHIP WITHOUT VIOLENCE. How else do you explain that MANY MEN IN RELATIONSHIPS, where intimacy is available, look at pornography ? That applies to both older and younger members on this site.

    Pornography is a continuation of the behaviour of power exercised OVER WOMEN that is carried out every day BY men on WOMEN in every area of life, at work at home and at social gatherings. Again I suggest looking at the LAURA BATES clip "EVERYDAY SEXISM" and see HOW a woman feels about the treatment they get EVERY DAY.

    Pornography re-affirms within the male of the species, PARTICULARLY WHEN IN GROUPS, a personal practice WHICH SEEKS TO CONFIRM THE EXISTING POWER STRUCTURE WITHIN SOCIETY.

    It amazes me also that when people ON THIS SITE - NoFappers - are so avidly OPPOSED to pornography, enough to expose themselves and bare their innermost feelings about how they hate pornography, they KEEP RELAPSING AND VIEWING PORNOGRAPHY AGAIN. Time and again people have to RESET - WHY IS THAT hellfire 2 - still full of hatred and self loathing ?

    I would say NO, it's because they haven't found THE REASON for their hatred and self loathing which is the reason they began looking at pornography in the first place - POWER OVER WOMEN.
     
  20. hellfire2

    hellfire2 Fapstronaut

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    No I really don't think you are correct. I agree there are some valid points. I would disagree with your main point that men only look at porn for power women. I think this is wrong and a dangerous idea.

    Also this addiction does harm the cognitive function of the brain to a degree I don't think you understand. That is why people's lives improve so rapidly once they get off porn. How many guys watch porn (I would say 90%). No I wouldn't say that this is a conspiracy but a real threat to society.

    Yes we only watch porn when we want to escape from reality. Porn is like any drug it makes you feel a high. We biologically programmed to seek out females and porn exploits that and then exaggerates it.
    Yes the people who reset are not happy when they go to watch porn. They go there to escape their realty. . life is too hard at that time.
    Explain to me why APCIA on the forum states he prefers female dominance in porn? ? That does not fit your code. Also how about the common disorder of men turning to transsexual porn who are heavily addicted? ? They are not woman. These people don't claim to be gay.
    It's the shock value. It's adrenaline which increases the high. The term guilty pleasure applies. As I said the porn industry cannot replicate human intimacy on screen. That is why it often turns to violence and degradation against women(but not always). To create a human emotion that the user will feel as they watch to increase the high.
    Men are looking for a high to escape reality. Porn does this. . The shameful acts give you an even greater high. Then once the high is over they feel guilt and self loathing for what they have done and seen and there the cycle continues.
    NB a lot of people who are addicted are from religious backgrounds. This is because they feel even greater moral and spiritual shame for what they have seen and get a bigger high because of it. These are not people who are looking to degrade women. They are disgusted by it.
    So you here are making people feel more shame and guilt who are already addicted and trying to break free. This will not help people addicted! This will not help the females you are trying to help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014

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