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Root causes

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Deleted Account, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. So I'm struggling a little with "getting to the root" of the addiction. Can't the reason just be that it felt good and you kept doing it until you were addicted? I for one started M as a child. I didn't know what it was or why I did it..it just felt good. Shortly later I discovered my dads stash and sure there were other unfortunate events throughout the span of my life but can't it all start for no reason necessarily?
     
  2. breakmylove

    breakmylove Fapstronaut

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    Disclaimer: I don't know shit.

    I think maybe it STARTS as a "hey this feels good" so of course you would wanna keep doing it. When I've worked with K-3 aged kids they're constantly rubbing up against shit and having their hands in their pants.
    But innocent exploration is completely different from P. I think there are events/an accumulation of negative feelings that result in turning to PMO for relief, pleasure, etc... In my eyes it's an unhealthy coping mechanism disguised as a casual, ordinary habit. For me the root cause I seek to find in my SO is at what point the dependence started, what feelings manifested this addiction, and what events could have been happening that were too painful to confront. Again, I have no idea what it's like to be addicted to P but I've had eating disorders for 13 years. Purging is addicting. Feeling like you're in control is fucking amazing even if it's not reality. I know eating disorders are completely different but I know it was unhealthy way for me to cope with feelings or conflicts around me. It didn't make everything better but it provided at least a brief break from reality.
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  3. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    OK.... Look up odeopus theory.
    Then look up Freud stages of sexual development.
    Specifically Phallic.
    And if these are out of order.... You will see SOOOOO MANY ISSUES!!!!
    come back, let's chat :)
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  4. breakmylove

    breakmylove Fapstronaut

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    I'm pretty familiar with those. I think they're interesting but I tend to agree more with Jung's theories. I think attachment theories and psychosexual development is fascinating. Especially now while I'm trying to learn more about codependency and sexual addiction.
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  5. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Yes!!
    I never point anyone to Jung.... But if you get there yourself..
    Its worth a discussion.
    :) :)
    Tell me, what is your thoughts on when you have your personal subconscious as a primitive archetype?
     
  6. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    (Sorry, this is going to be a long post.)

    The DSM-5 makes a difference between someone who abuses something and someone who is dependent on something. A abuser is someone who can use something and walk away from it. A dependent is someone who shows compulsive behavior, has escalating behavior due to a tolerance build up, and withdrawal symptoms. A person might start off as an abuser and eventually develop a dependency. Some are hooked from the very beginning.

    Someone can start PMOing because it feels good, it's exciting, and it's novel. They may even continue this behavior into adulthood and do this once in a while for entertainment. They may not show any negative side-effects until entering a relationship and their SO asks them to stop and they are able to walk away without a struggle.

    However, addicts have a very different relationship with PMO. They start for the same reasons but continue using it for very different reasons. The surface reason is that it physically feels good, but underneath they subconsciously learn to use it as a means of controlling their emotions. Often something else is happening in their life that is out of their control - family problems, bullying, loneliness, awkwardness, depression, anxiety, or any kind of teenagery stuff. Instead of learning healthy ways of coping with life's problems, addicts learn to use the PMO process to sooth themselves. It works so well that they fail to learn any other coping skills. Addicts repeatedly seek the illusion of relief to avoid unpleasant feelings."

    The PMO process also creates more than a physical sensation. Addicts constantly exploit our natural desire for maximum pleasure with minimum amount of pain. According to a recent study a recreational porn viewer only watches for 24 minutes a week. An addict will watch for 110 minutes a week. I think many of us watched for much longer and would go so far as to 'binge'. Why the difference? The addict is slipping into an altered state of mind... aka trance... aka auto-pilot. Humans constantly slip into these altered states when we read a book, watch a movie, play video games, create art, or engage in competitive sports. However, an addict uses this trance state to create a pain-free, stress-free, and judgment-free state of mind in which he never wants to leave.

    All this behavior is distressing to the addict. Now they start feeling shame, loss of self-worth, guilt, embarrassment, and the slipping of self control. The addict needs to engage in their behavior more often to medicate these additional feelings. An abuser may not feel these secondary emotions, but an addict is acutely aware of the pain and sinks deeper into addiction to avoid the pain.

    Addicts want to avoid the reality of their situation so they attempt to protect themselves with excuses, rationalizations, or minimalization. Their reasoning becomes faulty. They mistakenly believe that if they can perfectly control their emotions using PMO then they will be satisfied and happy. It is an illusion and they become more and more delusional to their true situation. And at some point there is a divide in their soul - their 'self' and their 'addict self' - like Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. And they start to battle each other ALL the time for supremacy, and with every relapse the 'addict self' becomes stronger. After fighting for hours or days, there is relief when the addict surrenders and relapses.

    Pretty intense stuff, right? But that is just Stage 1. Stage 2 involves behavior dependencies. Addicts turn their behavior into a LIFESTYLE. Addicts learn to form rituals to make themselves feel better. Life is complicated and scary, but rituals bring comfort. It is an easily repeatable and dependable process that they know will make them feel better. They learn how to maximize their pleasure and prolong the experience. There is even enjoyment in the anticipation and planning.

    Addicts lose trust in other people's ability to make them feel good so they turn to their ritual to feel better. It becomes the primary relationship in their lives. They will do anything to protect it. They will lie, they will blame, they manipulate others, they will build a wall to keep others out. They isolate themselves from outside activities and family and friends. Addicts become selfish, self-righteous, and self-centered. In Stage 2 addicts lose more and more of their humanity and all the wonderful qualities a person once loved disappears. It becomes harder and harder to communicate with an addict. Their addiction doesn't complain, make demands, or nags them. It is the perfect Mistress that the addict doesn't need.

    Addicts also start to identify as a person unworthy of love. All the names or labels you would call an addict are things they already believe about themselves. Someone might call them selfish, disgusting, worthless, horrible, or deplorable but an addict already believes it. The pain, anger, isolation, and despair is all fuel for turning inward towards their addiction.

    Finally, an addict will reach Stage 3 - The Breakdown. An addict will continue to escalate because their pain is increasing or because what they are doing does not sooth them enough. They will watch more porn, more hardcore forms of porn, or try to bring it to life. But eventually they will run out of ways to medicate. The last desperate attempts to medicate themselves involve a lot of money, illegal activity, or the total destruction of their family. Many health problems start to arise as the stress of keeping up the behavior manifests itself as physical ailments. Knowing they cannot medicate away their pain with PMO they consider suicide as a means to end the pain. It also the stage where their any loved ones left will stage an intervention or give them an ultimatum.

    All this is the reason why an addict cannot simply stop. They need to go through a chemical detox. Their actions need to change. Their behaviors need to change. Their thinking needs to change. They need to develop self-control. They need to learn how to cope with problems in healthy ways for the first time. They need to reclaim their humanity. Their belief system needs to change. They need to avoid the trance. They need to make meaningful connections with others again. Recovering from an addiction is like emerging from the depths of hell. Getting to the root of the problem involves addressing ALL these issues for a successful recovery.

    (Much of this info comes from The Addictive Personality: Understanding the Addictive Process and Compulsive Behavior by Craig Nakken)
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  7. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    It's OK @i_wanna_get_better1
    We all enjoy reading what you write :)
    (I'm going to read it now lol)
     
    i_wanna_get_better1 likes this.
  8. I welcome ALL responses and perspectives! I appreciate the input and advice very much! They can be as looonnggg as you want! :) Thanks guys/gals :emoji_kiss:
     
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  9. MindfulAchilles

    MindfulAchilles Fapstronaut

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    Porn is a friend.

    Now before you stone me, take some time to consider a story I'm about to tell. But first, a few questions. How many times has Porn stepped in to give you comfort? How many times has Porn made you happy? Made you feel? How many times it was the obvious thing to do, like calling that one friend you always like talking to? How many times did you plan ahead your date with Porn for the weekend in anticipation, as you made yourself a little list of all genres and names you'd look up in your favourite search engine? How may times you were feeling down and Porn appeared at your door with a six pack and that smile on its face?

    A lot of people spend time hating Porn, or claiming to hate it. I'd say that it takes an extremely honest person to acknowledge that had Porn been bad, sad, not attractive, destructive, we would probably not have spent a minute with it or allowed it into our place.

    Now. One of the things I did was treat it like a friend. And so will you as you visualize your own relationship with Porn.

    It's true, it was there for me through so many things, so many emotional moments in which I needed that escape, that good feeling, that thrill. Porn was a true friend, the first to come, and the last to go away. Always ready and inviting. Today, I feel like this friend, Porn, has moved in and started affecting my work and my school. To be honest, my girlfriend doesn't feel comfortable around it. She feels neglected, even when I do my best to make more time for her than I do for it. I sometimes, almost always, make decisions based on Porn, like when I'm offered the chance to do something with other people, Porn always has better plans for the two of us. After a long time without wanting to face Porn and ask it to move out people are starting to lose their patience. To be honest, so am I. I love it, but there's a lot of mess around and it doesn't really want to help. People avoid me because of it. My girlfriend has said she doesn't want to come over, and she has drawn a line in the sand that she doesn't want me to bring it with me to our dates either. I've mentioned it once or twice, that it'll probably be better for it to move out. Porn said he'd be moving out shortly.

    So I wrote a letter to porn. I was sure to mention all that was great and happy about our time together. There was so much I could thank it for, and I felt like it'd be a little stupid to put the relationship on hold and welcome it later. There's just that feeling that maybe we were meant to be together for that time, and now I really want to send it off somewhere else. I appreciate all that it provided for me, but at this point in my life, I'm after other things. I know he's always cheerful and happy, there's no chance he'll take it badly.

    --------

    Homework: Write a letter to your friend Porn, include all the great of the relationship. Point out the difficulties but don't get aggressive. Just send it off with a letter, as a friend you know you will never see again.
     
  10. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    My SO did this.
    Very helpful.
     
  11. Random thought: My grandmother used to say my mom had the perpetual mentality of a 14 year old because that's when she started using drugs. Like that age imprinted on her because that's when she started messing with her brain chemistry and whatnot. It often seems that way.

    If that's at all a possibility, i wonder if the same could be said for PA. It could also help explain why there's such a preoccupation with younger girls - what they were interested in at puberty and when they started using P. Lots of hormones and chemicals there. To quote Dazed and Confused, "That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age." *Gag*

    I've read on here that the excuse is that it's ok because they're sexually mature at 14, 15, etc. But none of the PAs take into consideration the lack of emotional maturity because that doesn't enter into the equation for them. It can't break through the objectification barrier. They probably don't want it to, at least not while they're still in the thick of the addiction/initial recovery.

    Just a thought. Sorry if I got off topic.
     
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  12. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    That's a heck of a thought.... Gag****
    I'm told I look 15
    (i think I puked in my mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
     
  13. Great read, as always :) Thank you!
     
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