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TooMuchTooSoon - A Partner's Journal

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by TooMuchTooSoon, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Thank you @kropo82. That is a beautiful poem and it does ring true. I had heard a saying that is similar and it resonated with me. It should resonate with every person.

    To clarify, I didn't have issues with masturbation or even really porn until all this went down. I wasn't thrilled with it but was ok with a don't ask don't tell kinda thing. Private personal time. Now both are triggers for me because he seems unable to masturbate AND perform with me. Likely due in some part to death grip. He has literally conditioned himself to his own touch.

    So I am not seeking to own his sexuality so much as asking him to not actively sabotage our sex life and my self esteem. Because it does translate to him choosing his own pleasure over mine AND ours. It's heartbreaking and humiliating to be there in an emotionally and sexually vulnerable moment just waiting for him to self stimulate back into readiness. I just try not to cry. I let him know it kills the mood and that I can't mimic his hand. So it's a self defeating action that just perpetuates the problem.

    I'd like to find someone imperfect but perfect for me. All I need is respect and love and consideration. That should not be too much to ask. Just gotta hit my rock bottom now. Then I'll know I've done all I could. No stone left unturned. No reasonable chance

    @ItsNeverTooLate. I'll take the hugs. :) I'm a survivor so I'll keep on keeping on. Some days it's harder than others but I shall persevere. I may wallow here and there, dip my toe in some dark and bitter thinking. But I usually come out of it with a clearer perspective and more strength. The light often looks even brighter after too ;)
     
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  2. Just posted under Rebooting in a Relationship about ogling/fantasizing and if/how it may be delaying healing progress. I would welcome any thoughts over there.

    Part of me feels so much better. We hashed out a lot tonight. This one issue, though. I don't know what to do about it. HE doesn't know what to do about it. He admitted being ashamed of it, moreso than with P. He got used to doing it being single for so long though I find it disrespectful regardless.

    So, trying to find info/insight to help us over this bump. Here's hoping.
     
  3. Sorry for being late on this thread, but I haven't really spent much time on NoFap during the time all this went down. Still, I feel the urge to comment, to praise you for going above and beyond for your partner, to give you a mostly recovered addict's opinion on your partner's actions, and last but not least, to give you some greatly overdue tough love. But let's start with the praise. Thank you so much for putting in all this effort. Your journal is a valuable insight into the mind of a PMO addict's SO, and I'm sure both addicts and SOs benefit greatly from reading it. You're an awesome person for bringing up the faith, courage and persistence to help your partner no matter what. You're putting yourself second constantly, because you care so much about your partner that you downright try to recover him on his behalf. Sadly, it doesn't really work like that.
    I just read the whole thread once again just now, and doing that once again teared me up. It hurts learning about your struggles, how you're not leaving any stone unturned, about how you're desperately trying to make everything right, ultimately to little or no avail. What you describe of your partner's actions eerily reminds me of myself, before I signed up on NoFap 400 days ago. It painfully reminds me of how indifferent and oblivious I was about how hazardous this PMO addiction really is. It reminded me of my addictive thinking, when I was still in the firm grip of the PMO beast. I invite you to skim through my journal for more details, but in short: I was trying to quit PMO mostly on my own for ten years, to no avail, prior to reaching my rock-bottom moment and signing up on NoFap and recovering with the help of my wife. I know exactly how your partner thinks and reasons right now, and I'll give you some examples.

    It really hurt reading that, because I told my wife similar things on various occasions. My addicted brain simply couldn't let me admit that it would bother me, and so I actually suggested things that my now recovered brain loathes. Lack of empathy? See next quote.

    PMO numbs your feelings, it cripples your ability to feel or show love, empathy, affection, kindness, selflessness, you name it. After learning about this on YBOP, I seeked out ways to counter that. I learned about FANOS, Karezza and the power of gentle touch, I learned about love languages and actively tried to rekindle the love for my wife. I'm not telling you this to boast. I'm telling you this because your partner isn't showing any effort at all.

    During my recovery, I talked a lot with my wife about how she felt during the time I was addicted. She told me she always knew when I was consuming, and I recall several occasions when she confronted me with it, and she was really always right. I wouldn't use the flatline as a metric here though, because I probably hadn't experienced one either. But please use him being aloof, inconsiderate, irritable or an overall jerk as a metric, and always trust your gut feeling!

    You're capable of introspection. You're aware of the circumstances and memories that influence your decision making. It seems your partner is not, at least not yet.

    This person is not ready to give up his addiction yet, not by a long shot. Instead of admitting that he has a serious problem that needs to be addressed as soon as possible (e.g. today), he moves the spotlight away from himself. It takes a considerable amount of selfishness and ignorance to counter your loving and caring concerns about his addiction as "hurtful to his feelings". Just reading that made me cringe, and I had to edit out calling him names. He has not even the slightest idea how much pain, grief and sorrow he had caused for you. If he had, he would be buried under a stupendously huge pile of guilt, and trying everything possible to shovel his way out of that, to make up for all the hurt feelings he caused you.
    During the first few months of my recovery, I barely talked about anything else. I was obsessed with getting this parasite out of my head, I easily put in more effort into my recovery than I put into my diploma thesis. Way more! My wife felt the need to slow it down a bit at times, so it doesn't trigger her too much.

    Don't let your guard down, not as long as you're not seeing immense effort from his side. Don't let him hurt you again, again, and again, and yet again afterwards, you deserve so much more than that. Recovery is very possible, but it takes effort from his side, not yours.

    From my own experience, I can strongly relate to his comment, but I can also honestly say that I've overcome that mindset somewhere during the last year. His addicted brain just keeps telling him that every woman on the street is a yet to discovered porn star, and so it's just natural for him to check her out.

    You can't just set some goals and rely on therapy to magically heal yourself. He relapsed, because he has fallen back into M, but he's not taking the necessary actions, identifying his triggers, changing his habits, trying again to stay PMO free. Instead, he just shrugged his shoulders and tried to reason that he simply can't spare the occasional M. That's addictive thinking.


    If you feel used, he probably used you while fantasizing about different things. This is a recurring theme among addicts, using their partner to basically jerk themself off.

    Your partner established the habit of medicating himself with M, and he even admitted it. Also, this is addictive thinking, "he's only human", "everyone is doing it", "no harm in watching some porn, right?"
    M inevitably leads to having fantasies, which lead to porn, he has to establish a zero tolerance policy. Also, he has to learn how to deal with stress or being horny in a healthy way.

    I see two possibilities here, a good one and a bad one.
    The good one would be that he realized that Oing, no matter if by M or intercourse is bad for him. From my own experience, I can't stress this enough: Having Os prolonges the recovery. The hormonal changes in the brain will affect him for 1-2 weeks, and I learned that it takes me about 40 days before the so called "superpowers" surface again. I recommend that you support him in case he wanted to do a full 90 hard mode reboot (no P, M or O whatsoever), but don't despair! You don't have to abstain for that long. Other SOs on here tried it and realized that they are somewhat dependent on M as well, but my wife had nothing of that, and so we eventually agreed on having S without me finishing on a regular basis.
    Now the bad one. He picked up M again, and wants to avoid the stress of experiencing ED/DE problems and the accompanying drama.
    In either case, a complete 90 day hard mode reboot would be pretty mandatory for him, especially since he's dealing with PIED/DE.

    I see no reason for policing him, it will only cause you more pain. My wife tried it a few years back, but I quickly found ways to circumvent that as well. The policing can't be what prevents him from PMO, only his own free will and determination can be.


    You just admitted that you're enabling him.
    He is really getting the best of both worlds, a faithful, supportive, caring partner, a living sex doll, and a doormat to walk over, on the other hand a vast army of silicone enhanced pornstars to jerk off to. And every time he uses his hand to finish to pixels, the pornstar army is gaining ground. And yes, you are his doormat, because he's trampling your feelings.
    We have to talk about creating a rock bottom moment. As long as he's not facing any consequences from lying to you while continuing to feed his addiction, he has no incentive to change. His addicted brain prevents him from being completely honest with you, because the addiction knows exactly that it would inevitably lead to bad consequences (from the addiction's perspective). His addicted brain also skews his decision making progress. He keeps downplaying the addiction because of it, he simply can't see any good enough reason to stop what he's doing, because he's lacking the empathy to see your side of things, and the convenient dopamine dosage whenever he Ms blows what little of his qualms is left to smithereens.
    You have to draw a line in the sand. Make it perfectly clear that you can't tolerate being with a PMO addict any longer, and that you're leaving him. Don't give in to his begging. Actions speak louder than words. You gave him enough time to prove that he's making an honest effort, but all you got was lies and poor excuses. You have to do this for your own good, you already admitted your codependency. Just as he has to break out of the addiction's vicious cycle, the sooner the better, you have to break out of this toxic relationship. You have to take care of yourself, first and foremost, and you have it comparatively easy. I've seen SOs leaving their addict partner on here that were married with kids and where jumping in uncharted waters, with no job prospect and an uncertain future. Anything is better than watching your beloved partner getting his very soul sucked out by the PMO addiction, until literally nothing is left of his former self that is worth fighting for.
    He has to take ownership of his actions. Nobody forces him to watch P, other than himself. He has to show remorse, and acknowledge your pain. He has to be completely honest with you, because once he decides to let you into his team, you're actually able to make a difference.
    Until then, there's not much you can do. You can't force him to put in the effort. You can't simply talk him into recovery. All you can do is protecting yourself from him hurting you any more, and having hope for the day he reaches his rock bottom. You decide if you want to wait another 1, 5, 10 or 15 years for that to happen.
    Either way, I dearly wish you find the strength you need to continue on your path, either with or without him. Please don't lose hope, even though things don't really look bright right now. Even though my wife kept struggling for 10 years before I eventually woke up, please find solace in the fact that the last 400 days mostly felt like the honeymoon we never had, for both of us. She tells me how happy and how much in love she is with me every single day. I occasionally tell her how sorry I am for all the pain and sorrow I caused her, and how grateful I still am that she never gave up on us.
    That being said, you really have to take my advise to leave him with a grain of salt. If my wife would have created this thread 2 years ago, and a different ChangeMattersToMe would have advised her to leave me, I would still be caught in the addiction. But again, you can't force him into recovery, he has to pursue it on his own. The moment my wife created my rock bottom moment, she let me choose between her and the porn star army, and I realized that the army was clearly winning. That was the moment I realized that there was something seriously wrong with me, that I really need proper help. I hope your partner wakes up from his porn coma as well, very soon.
    Take good care, and we'd love to hear from you occasionally.
     
  4. Please see these excellent threads on fantasy and disclosure.
     
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  5. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    It sounds like there is no insight that what he is doing is damaging to him. Without insight, it will be harder to change.
    I have noticed that addictions run together. This last attempt, I gave up something else I was addicted to at the same time, and it really seems to have made a big difference (hard to say for sure, because am working on other things at the same time). Could he be addicted to marijuana, although from your description it sounds like he is using it very infrequently? What is the longest period of time he didn't use it?
     
  6. You remind me of me! I did a lot of soul searching and working through my codependency issues before I met my PA. We continually have to remind ourselves of boundaries, following through, not settling for less than what we deserve and knowing we can only control ourselves and our actions not his! You are very smart and wish you the best on your journey! Stay strong!
     
  7. Wow I read your posts and I feel like These are my words and I could have wrote this. I feel all too much the same! Hope things are looking up for you and he is working on himself
     
  8. @Broken3 - It's eerie how so many of us see ourselves in one another, addicts and partners alike. I can't say enough how grateful I am to have this forum and so many insightful and empathetic people. It gets me through some days. I am here for you. Thank you for being here for me.

    @stygian - I think he's addicted to dopamine like so many are. So any and all substances, behaviors, and activities that release dopamine are fair game. I think he switches in and out. He quits one and so has to move to another. One time he had a literal weeklong bender smoking weed while visiting family out of state (that's all they do apparently). I don't think he was sober at all during that time. He can go months without marijuana and has, then he'll do it 3 or 4 times over a month or so (which he did soon after he quit porn). He quit weed a month ago and suddenly the ogling/fantasizing got worse and things regressed for us physically. Hello?! I don't know how he doesn't see what is happening. And it seems to be accelerating, happening sooner each switch. So I think above all I am trying to figure out how to help him achieve some insight in all this. As others have said, he may need that rock bottom moment before he can have any epiphanies. We shall see.

    @ChangeMattersToMe - I have read your thoughtful and thorough post many times today. I plan to do so every day, just as I have with the post by @fuzzywaz. It helps keep me grounded in reality. It is wonderful to have so many people caring enough to give me tough love and looking out for me when I sadly don't have the same love and consideration at home. Apparently even for and from myself. So I took the info I was originally going to say/write in my other post and expanded on it. It turned into a novella. But it was cathartic. I included it below. I'm not sure how much of it I will actually say - it really seems like too much - but this must be addressed. I hope I can be that rock bottom moment for him, either by almost leaving or actually leaving. I'm tired of dating people for their potential, only for them to realize it AFTER we break up. I feel like I'm some sort of catalyst for growth but it only bites me in the ass every time. Always drawing the short stick. But I now realize because of my codependency issues, I'm sabotaging myself by ONLY having short sticks to choose from. That's on me. So back to working on MY issues instead of his. Self care for the win!


    We talked about how ogling and fantasizing about women feels good because it releases dopamine. That’s also what P does and why it affected our sex life so adversely. That wiring to novelty is what makes it difficult for you to perform with me. Although you have given up P itself, by ogling and fantasizing you're still having mental sex with scores of women. It’s really just a P substitute like any remotely sexually explicit material on YouTube, Reddit, Facebook or Instagram, etc. It all perpetuates an addiction to dopamine which could very well explain our sex issues, especially lately.

    You mentioned your lower moods have coincided with you staring at women even more than usual, maybe as a way to cope with depression? I recall you mentioning that was also when you used P: whenever you were depressed or even just bored or stressed. I really think this could be significantly and negatively impacting our physical intimacy just as P did. It could also explain why we haven't really progressed any further than we have with ED and DE. In fact, we’ve regressed. Things have gotten worse again. It's like you quit smoking but are still wearing a nicotine patch, limping along with a crutch and not actually healing your brain. Descending back into rationalization and justification.

    You initially blamed your anti-depressant for sexual issues before realizing porn was the big culprit. Now you’re blaming your beta-blocker. I’m not saying that meds couldn’t possibly have some effect, but they haven’t changed. Your moods have, though, which seems to have escalated the ogling/fantasizing/P substitution. All around the same time we’ve been struggling more again physically. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

    It’s funny because you don't like it when you think I'm “staring” at you, probably because you are not nearly so inclined to look at me. Who wants to be with someone who barely looks at them? Meanwhile, you're staring at other women which leaves me out in the cold. It feels terrible knowing you do that. I’m trying to look at this calmly and rationally but honestly I’m mad and sad and screaming inside. Most of all at myself for dealing with this, for putting up with this and not demanding better for myself sooner. Because, really, why would I want to go out with you knowing you're constantly mentally cheating on me? Especially now that I'm aware our sex life is still being continuously sabotaged. It's a double whammy. How can I watch TV or movies with you or see you on your phone or computer when I know you're probably doing the same thing there, intentionally or not? Why would I want to introduce you to friends or family knowing you might ogle at or fantasize about them? So we can’t go out and we can’t stay in. What kind of life is that?! It's just disgusting and sad and hurts me more than you want or care to realize.

    I know you’ve struggled to empathize with me, to understand how your actions make me feel, how much they continue to torture me. So here are a few links that might help from the perspective of a male/addict working on recovery as well as responses from other recovering addicts and significant others. Maybe you can better understand from their perspective.

    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/fantasy.74554/

    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/addiction-disclosure.75233/

    You mentioned worrying about how as one issue is resolved another might take its place. But don’t you see? This is all really just one big issue: Dopamine addiction which fuels impulsive and compulsive behavior. P, M, then weed, now the ogling/fantasizing. You keep exchanging one dopamine fix for the next and the same issues arise because you don’t really want to stop. You claim you don’t know how to stop but you also don’t do anything to try and learn how to quit. You just say you’ve done it for so long… guys are visual… you’re wired to “spread your seed”… piling on more rationalization, further justification. You even struggle with staying off your phone for any given period of time. So if I had to guess that would be next because it’s already an issue. You seem to constantly require distraction, an escape.

    Addiction was hugely detrimental to my childhood. I refuse to let it do the same to my whole adulthood. I can't, I won’t, knowingly allow it to be in my life any longer. I don't think you realize just how much it has influenced your brain and personality and feelings or lack thereof. It has determined how you treat people and likely created or reinforced your inability to empathize or think of or care how your actions affect others. I need to continue working on my own codependency as it's an addiction of its own sort too. So I will start now. I need to take care of myself first, no one else will. I will not put up with mistreatment any longer. I have for too long.

    I deserve to feel like I'm enough, but I don't. I deserve a partner who shows he wants me and wants to know me as much as possible. You don't. I deserve someone who wants to spend time with me and shows it. You don't really seem to care either way. The amount of time you seek me out is ever dwindling. I don't want someone who is happy to take me or leave me depending on their mood. I deserve better than indifference and apathy. Hot and cold, inconsistent attention and affection, it makes me feel like a yo-yo and it's not fair to me. I deserve a partner who considers my feelings reason enough to change unnecessary and hurtful behaviors while you seem motivated to change only to avoid the confrontation stress. I certainly deserve to be with someone who is not constantly mentally unfaithful, who ignores and neglects me and my needs in reality in favor of escaping to a fantasy world full of social media and/or other women’s body parts.

    I think you enjoy how I treat you and the support you're getting from the relationship but I am not receiving much in return. Little affection or consideration. Neglect and selfishness. Words without actions. Small, grudging progress with no sign of doing more – of doing what’s really needed in order to improve yourself and our relationship. I no longer believe you love ME. I don’t doubt that you think you do but really you love the IDEA of me and of a serious relationship. We both deserve more than that. We deserve the real thing, IF that's what you want. It’s definitely what I want.

    I want marriage. I want a true partner to stand by my side, to stand by me. I want someone who will look out for me, who will think of my feelings just as much as I will for them. I want someone who is present and shows me every day that they care and that I matter to them, that I am enough.

    I love you. I feel like I have done a lot to work on this relationship. I think I have done more to help you than you have yourself. I am willing to keep working on us but something has to change, now, because I don't want to spend the rest of my life this way. I doubt you do either. So I hope you take this time to think about what you really want. What do you want? Really truly want and value in life? What are you willing to do for it? If you want me in your life, I need you to show me. By being present and giving up all the addictive, dopamine-driven behaviors and demonstrating you're really trying to heal, you AND us. By putting in the necessary work and figuring out what that is if you don’t know what to do. If you put in the effort and can show me you want to be with ME, not just someone who does for you what I do, I will stand by you every step of the way. Show me you’re in this just as much as I am and I will support you and help you in any constructive way possible. If you don’t want this relationship, though, or would rather give up rather than put in the work, I have no choice but to do the same. I will not beg someone to be with me, let alone beg them to want to be with me.
     
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  9. One other quick thing. I feel like I have hit a flatline myself (again - I remember feeling like this previously). It's almost a kind of emotional exhaustion that gives me the distance to look at things unemotionally and really evaluate the situation and what I need to do. I see why addicts are grateful for it sometimes. It really does offer a certain peace.
     
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  10. Warning: Pissy vent ahead!

    So much for the flatline. I already miss that pleasant numbness. It's a low day. Low mood, low tolerance, for everything and especially myself. I am angry at being in this position, for allowing myself to stay in this situation. When I have no serious investments like marriage and/or kids or even a years-long relationship why the hell am I doing this myself? And for what?! To enable someone to continue hurting me? To keep mentally, physically, emotionally, and sexually abandoning me to stare at and mind-f**k other women? To seek out his next dopamine source, one after another? Aaaaarrrrrggghhh. Why would anyone want to stay with someone who disrespects them so much, and just expects them to deal with it because "that's what they've always done and they don't know how to stop?" Try doing some research and seeking help a-hole!!! Lift a finger to put forth some effort!!! I need to respect myself more than he respects me. It can't be that hard. The bar is pretty low. Ha! But I know I deserve better than this. We're supposed to skype later and I don't know what to do. I have zero poker face. So I'm torn between hoping he calls so I can find reassurance and hoping he doesn't because I am currently seething at him. I want him to call so I can let loose on him but don't want him to lest I say or do something right then and there that I might regret later. I have to remind myself that he's living in my house and taking care of my dog. I have to keep my sh*t together until I'm back home and we can talk this out rationally. I just want to scream. I have to juggle all these feelings for a whole week. And I have 5 days of long hours, all in front of clients, ahead of me. How the hell can I do all that without breaking?!
     
    Bel likes this.
  11. You're angry, and you have all the right to be. But don't be angry at yourself, because of things you did in the past. You can't change them, but you can try to do the right thing today. Be kind and understanding on Skype, because after all, finding the motivation to fight your demons is hard!
    Do the right thing with your clients, be professional and awesome, instead of being a nervous wreck. You have to put yourself first now! Starting a possibly relationship - ending argument won't do you any good today. Focus on your clients, because they will still be there next week or next months, and they are part of your very own personal success.
    Channel your hate.. But not like the emperor demanded from Luke Skywalker. Put it to good use, much like a recovering addict is putting the free time he has gained from quitting PMO to good use for self improvement or reaching his goals.
    You're much stronger than you think you are. Prove that you can overcome your demons. Take care!
     
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  12. Hang in there girl just remember you want him to continue to be honest with you if you freak out that might deter him from being honest with you in the future. I know exactly how you feel I've been down this road and I'm sure I'll be down this road again at some point. It doesn't make it OK but you want to be able to walk away from the conversation not feeling the heavy on you. This is his problem not yours you need to protect yourself and distance yourself from feeling the pain of his addiction. I also know it's easier said than done not to freak out on them in there done that. But you are strong and you can do this and I'll be praying for you hang in there. By the way if you get a chance to read I read a good book that was very helpful with this situation it was called love must be tough by James Dobson .
     
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  13. Thanks @ChangeMattersToMe and @Broken3. I am doing much better. Yesterday was hard. I didn't think a relaxing bath could go wrong but it did. After dropping towels in the water, the water coming out too hard and soaking my book, and so on I pretty much gave up on the day. Then I spent too much time in my own head which spiraled me into an overwhelming overanalyzing state. Venting here really helped. Just getting my thoughts and feelings OUT! helps with processing.

    I am trying to take responsibility for me and my role of enabling and not standing up for myself and demanding more and better...what I truly deserve. Sometimes anger and spite are great motivators. I do not hate in reality. It's too strong a word that coincides only with my extreme emotions towards him AND me. I am angry but more sad and disappointed. Addiction is awful and flies in the face of all that is sane and good.

    It's funny how you can discuss something rationally but then later the details worm their way into your thoughts and you suddenly realize just how much it upsets you. Like discussing a problem without really facing it and then getting rocked by that reality when you finally do. So much to work through.

    So now I am gonna keep breathing deeply. Soon I will go be awesome at my job and will smile sincerely at clients and get through this week with grace and composure. I always do. :)

    In case you're curious, there was no Skype session or even a phone call. I gave up on expecting anything and just sent a goodnight text right before I turned in. He responded back that he'd just gotten home, sorry no skype session, and goodnight. So there it shall lie. I did mentally tick off the 'inconsiderate /unreliable' box mentally, though. He's done that a fair amount. Said he'll call, Skype, or come over then loses time or doesn't feel good or something and there goes that.

    Is it wrong I want to try NOT to think about him or do so as little as possible? Is it petty or mean to minimize contact without saying why? To let him worry and wonder as I have? That's where I'm leaning. But I don't want to be too spiteful. Just a little. Spiteful enough ;) I think I am going to do my darndest to just focus on me and having as good a week as possible.

    Who knows how many hills, drops, and loops this rollercoaster has ahead. Might as well rest and not over worry. What's that saying that worry means you suffer twice? I am a huge worrywart so adding that to my to do list of self improvement.

    Feeling ok so far this morning. Better than I expected. Small victories.
     
  14. I was just awarded the "Can't Stop" trophy. Am I the only one who thinks that is hilarious? Ha!
     
  15. Ok. I worked on this for awhile. A few recent events as outlined in the text below spawned some new content. I'm not proud but am not entirely sorry either. A little sorry. But I'm grasping at straws for the full picture.

    So here is a LONG Revised Letter/Email which incorporates my rage, pain, expectations and boundaries. Accusatory tone be damned. He needs to hear just how deeply this has affected me.

    Did I miss anything? I know I can be painfully verbose but damn it feels good to get it all out. I hope this might be remotely helpful to anyone else struggling in this awful addiction, PA or SO.

    I think I have to send it. It's too much to read out loud or try and converse naturally. I also like the idea of him being able to re-read and refer back to if he's willing to do what it takes. No holding back. Raw emotion here.

    So my current plan is to send it after I get back home and settled. The only roadblock now is I'm reluctant to give up my secret. It's giving me valuable insight and may make my decision for me. I keep waiting to read some new words on there that will freeze my heart toward him and close the door on any hope for us.

    As always, I welcome the thoughts and suggestions of SO's and PA's.


    I love you. I wanted to get that out first because it's important that you know that. I truly do. I certainly wouldn't have stuck around if I didn't. I also need you to know how much I've been struggling. You don't seem to realize or are genuinely unable to see just how much all of the issues have hurt me: porn, weed, ogling/fantasizing, emotionally detaching, inconsistent affection and communication. It's killed my confidence and self esteem and wounded me to the core. I am broken and exhausted. It's left me feeling a husk in this relationship.

    I'm so tired of emoting when you aren't at all. I've spiraled downward and don't know how to get back up. But I will keep trying. I'm just tired. I feel like I'm doing so much work to help you beat addictions and grow in the relationship since you're not used to being this serious with anyone. With that, though, I'm neglecting my own needs and am settling for poorer treatment than I should. Sarcasm and bitterness abound below. Bit that's how I was/am feeling and I'm done sugarcoating.

    I did something I'm not proud of. You offhandedly mentioned a Reddit post you made a week or two back. I found the subject disturbing and it stuck in my head. So I looked it up and discovered your user name. On the one hand, I didn't go snooping through your email or Facebook or phone or browser history or anything like that. Reddit is public. People in serious relationships typically know what their SO's usernames are. Not that you've shared that with me, though, so I do consider it snooping of a sort. I am sorry for that. You're so closed off, especially lately, I was hoping to gain some insight, especially since you're pulling back again. I am happy to give you space but I'm worried that this is getting ridiculous. It was your idea to move in, now you're getting overwhelmed. It's that yo-yo effect I mentioned. It's not fair to me. You can't just tug me back and forth and expect me to come running or leave running at your every whim. I'm not a toy. I am a person with feelings you seem unable to consider or empathize with. Imagine if one minute I told you I loved you, then that I was feeling smothered by you, then didn't want to be around you or was tired of you. Because your behavior is telling me all of that.

    I had to know if there might be some redeeming things for you and us so on the one hand I looked on Reddit because I care - I feel like you have access to look me up in all sorts of ways and just don't. I've offered you the password on my phone and my laptop does not have any locks. Yours does. I've wondered why you haven't taken advantage of KNOWING I'm writing on nofap.com but haven't bothered to look it up when it would offer so much insight. Can't be bothered or just don't care or are you afraid or? None are appealing options to think about. I offered you all this access (which you did not offer in kind) so it wouldn't have been a matter of not respecting my privacy. But I looked and I found a mix of things... some good and some of them upsetting. Of course. Seek and ye shall find and all that.

    It's painful reading about your SO seeking out date ideas for someone they're really interested in (though only went on a few dates with) when they've never really done the same for you, or at least they haven't posted about it. Other than the one drive-in visit, though, I can't say you've planned any real dates for me, or tried to impress me. Maybe you just don't like me that much, or as much as you did her. I know that sounds petty but it sure feels that way right now. I remember you talking about her, and how much it seemed she had hurt you even though you had spent so little time together. It happens. I just wish it had happened with me too. Let me tell you, you've hurt me beyond compare, over the course of more time but I also think it's a great deal more pain. I really don't fault you for the post itself, it was before me so I have no right to be upset about that and really am not. It's the comparison of how excited you seemed about her and how unexcited you seem about me.

    It's no fun reading about your boyfriend talking about their dog with no mention of a girlfriend or that it's really her dog - and you wonder why I feel like your lack of PDA is to try and portray that you're single when you can't even admit a girlfriend on any form of social media? Even the pretty much anonymous one(s)? Privacy my ass. It also explains why when we do go places together, we split off. You say you like that I can be independent and not have to stay by you or touch you even though that is what I want at least part of the time. I hate that you either don't want to spend time WITH me or you want distance to better ogle other women freely.

    It's disappointing and scary reading about your behaviors that point even more toward addiction, illegal behaviors that could land you in jail, though that was posted before me. You've never mentioned it and you've mentioned a lot of dark stuff. So what the hell. It's heart wrenching reading about your boyfriend only a few months ago (after quitting porn...again apparently - you were previously on the nofap sub-Reddit after all!!!!!!!!) telling a guy who is remorseful about being aroused by underage girls that it's "normal," even though I'm already well aware of your feelings on that subject so I shouldn't be surprised. You've shared so freely how sexually aroused you are by (fill in the blank) in the past. The list is long and inexorably carved into my memory and my heart. I still particularly wince over the memory of you giving a talk at a high school and having to go back to your bedroom after to masturbate because "you should have seen what they were wearing." YOU TOLD YOUR GIRLFRIEND THAT!!! At that time it was still pretty new, though, so maybe YOU TOLD THAT GIRL YOU'RE DATING AND SUPPOSEDLY ARE INTERESTED IN THAT!!! would be more accurate. Disgusting.


    In relation to an article regarding the importance of bonding time after sex, it sucks reading about your SO (hopefully) joking that all their relationships will be terrible because they fall asleep right after sex, aka never engage in that affection (again, this is only a few months ago). Thanks for trying SO hard to make our relationship better. And RelationshipS? So you're planning on more. It's good to know we have nothing to look forward to but mediocrity and that then you'll move on to someone else.

    It's really hard reading about your clear knowledge of the pitfalls of PMO (only a year ago!) when you claimed you had no idea it could be the cause of their sexual problems. If you had spent any time on nofap.com symptoms of DE and PIED would have been staring you in the face. Instead you blamed the meds - the same excuse/reasoning we're back to now. I don't actually think it's the beta blocker by the way, but the increased ogling and fantasizing which gives you a dopamine hit. You even said so yourself. So it's the same as porn and you saw what that did to us. But I guess it's appropriate that constantly mentally cheating on me might have some sexual repercussions. It sucks that I'm the one suffering those consequences, doubly so. Feeling cheated on and unable to have a normal sex life. Because it's really awesome knowing your boyfriend is mentally fucking every attractive female in sight when he can barely look at you for more than a moment. How can we progress when you still have what amounts to a porn brain? We can never have intimacy this way. I can't feel special knowing that when I choose to share my body with you and no one else, you have no problem looking at countless others, rendering me just one of the masses you can use as a masturbatory aid. A living sex doll of sorts.


    All in all, I feel like shit. I told you my mood has been low. Well guess what? It is because of all this. All that I've had to put up with and deal with and process over the course of our surprisingly brief time together. It feels like forever, and not generally in a good way. I love you but you've made me feel terrible, in this relationship and about myself. Can you please tell me why I should stay? In this, with you? Is there any hope of you getting better, of us getting better? Or is this all there is? Because let me tell you, it's far from enough and nowhere near what I deserve.

    You keep saying everyone in your life is telling you not to fuck this relationship up because I'm good for you. And a good catch. But what do YOU think? Am I the one you actually want to be with or do you just think I'm a good choice? Do you love me or the idea of me and how I support you? If you're not really in love with ME, we can never be happy. Love isn't about what you're supposed to do but what you can't help doing or feeling with the right person. Say the word and I will set us both free to find someone we can each have that with. Or tell me that you truly want ME and to make this work and show me you're willing to do whatever it takes to make me secure and safe in this relationship. I don't know anyone else who would put up with the crap I have and I'm not doing it any more. I deserve to feel important and loved. I give that to you but receive little to nothing in return.

    So, what's it gonna be? Is this goodbye or the real start of making things right? If the former, yeah this will hurt like hell but in time we'll likely both realize it wasn't the right fit. I know I will - relationships are work but it shouldn't be THIS hard.

    If you DO want to make this work, I am going to need you to do/not do some things for me. You once told me that if all you did for the rest of your life was learn to love me, you'd be happy with that. Well, let's see how much you meant that. Here's a primer on how to love me, aka my current needs and boundaries to feel ok about this relationship:


    Love ME

    • Not because of what I do for you
    • Not because I'm good on paper
    • Not because you don't want to be alone
    • BECAUSE you love me for me
    • BECAUSE I make you happy and you want to make me happy
    • BECAUSE you truly want to be with me
    • By being excited about me and us
    • By wanting to spend time with me and actually missing me
    • By asking me questions about myself and my thoughts and hopes and dreams rather than making everything about you and I'm forced to volunteer information for you to know anything at all about me, especially as time goes on
    • By trying to think of my feelings and how you might be hurting them
    • By showing me consideration and adhering to the below

    Don't Cheat on me

    • Physically - pretty obvious (no kissing, sexually touching, etc.) FYI, I even consider what your dad did at his 60th? birthday with a stripper to qualify as cheating. No sex workers of any kind, period. No mouths, hands, or sexual bits should touch your mouth, hands, or sexual bits. Pretty much if you wouldn't be comfortable doing it with me standing there it's a no.
    • Emotionally - sharing personal/intimate things with another woman that should be shared with me. Putting energy into your friendship/relationship with another woman that drains energy or quality from your relationship with me. Really any type of relationship that takes away from the intimacy of ours. This hasn't been an issue that I'm aware of, just covering all bases for the future, if we have one.
    • Mentally - no porn, no seeking sexual content online or in movies/tv, no ogling or fantasizing about other women and no masturbation (at least for a good long while). When you put your sexual energy into only yourself or direct it at others, I'M the one who suffers for it. Porn and ogling/fantasizing, etc. has been proven to make you less happy with your partner, so please just don't. I'm fighting hard over here and don't need you sabotaging us further. This may sound brutal, but if I had to grade our sex life and how fulfilled I am, I'd give it a D. Maybe a C- if I'm feeling generous. We've had some Bs and even an A or two. But a whole lot of Fs too. Inability to initiate/continue because of your conditioning to other women and yourself, little to no foreplay, little consideration for my pleasure, little to no connection/intimacy during or after. It's not acceptable.

    Be Present

    • No weed, other drugs, or excessive drinking - drinking a bit more every once in awhile might be ok, but so far as I have seen when you've smoked/eaten weed or drank too much you ignored me completely and/or treated me terribly and without consideration. Totally Unacceptable.
    • Minimize phone time - you're constantly reaching for it. Sometimes you're fine going without it; other times you can't leave it for more than a few minutes at a time. Let's aim to set some time aside for that and then focus on the real.
    • Listen when I speak - it's freaky how often you say EXACTLY the same thing I JUST SAID because you weren't paying attention to me. The good news is we're apparently on the same wavelength the amount of time this happens.

    Be Consistent

    • This hot and cold back and forth is not ok
    • Decide what level of time together is workable for you and commit to it
    • Let me know if/when you need some space instead of acting cold, distant, or aloof. We can compromise. You just have to communicate your needs rather than unilaterally acting on them.

    SHOW Me

    • You love me with words AND actions - not just acts of service. I need affection and quality time and words of affirmation too. I try to offer all of it and feel shafted in return.
    • You're in this for the long haul or get out now
    • You are committed to the above by communicating your struggles and your dedication to keep working at it
    • You can own your issues and their consequences.
    • You are aware of and sorry for all the pain you've caused us. Yourself. Me. I will never be the same after this.
    • You are serious about making things better via therapy, joining a support group in person or online, and doing all the research I've done FOR YOURSELF! No more half-assing and claiming ignorance. I know you know better now. I feel stupid to have not realized that sooner.

    Understand and Accept and Overcome

    • You have an addictive personality. Currently you are addicted to dopamine. During our time together you've given up porn and fallen back into weed. You gave up weed only to start ogling/fantasizing more. Your brain is desperately grasping for any dopamine fix it can find and it's distancing you from me. Before we were together, it was other drugs, smoking (cigarettes), and apparently shoplifting?! DOPAMINE DOPAMINE DOPAMINE!!! You need help. Every single one of your coping mechanisms includes it, and an unhealthy overabundance of it. Here are some symptoms of dopamine deficiency. Sound familiar?
    1. Lack of interest in life
    2. Decreased motivation
    3. Procrastination
    4. Inability to feel pleasure
    5. Altered sleep patterns
    6. Restless leg syndrome
    7. Fatigue
    8. Mood swings
    9. Excessive feelings of hopelessness or guilt
    10. Poor memory
    11. Inability to focus/impaired concentration
    12. Impulsive or self-destructive behaviors
    13. Addictions to caffeine or other stimulants
    14. Weight gain
    YOU FIT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE!!! I think you should talk to your therapist about it. I know you admitted speaking to them about PMO before - it's all under the same umbrella. You are so interested in the brain and how it works. I would think/hope you'd be even more interested in keeping yours as healthy as possible. Below are some links on healthy dopamine enhancement both in food, supplement, and activities. I will gladly do it with you as I can use some healthier habits myself.

    http://universityhealthnews.com/daily/depression/8-natural-dopamine-boosters-to-overcome-depression/

    http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/01/20/10-ways-to-increase-dopamine-levels-in-the-brain/

    https://bebrainfit.com/increase-dopamine/


    I need you to embrace this and work with me to make our relationship and our lives better. I am in this with you, I'm on your team. I can't do it for you - I tried and it didn't work. It can't ever work if I'm the only one putting in the effort. BUT I'll support you every step of the way.

    So. Are you willing to work on this or are you giving up? Either way I'll be doing the same.
     
  16. I'd also like to thank all the PA's and SO's for the continued support, care, and tough love. I've been good with offering the first two to my own PASO but it's time to turn to tough love. We both need me to.
     
  17. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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    I would lose the apology and justification for snooping in paragraph 3. You shouldn't have to investigate how your SO feels because he refuses to share. You might have the desire to have a balanced feel to the letter and not make it feel like you are complaining the entire time about his behavior. But I think it gives him something to latch onto and point the finger at you and then totally miss the point of the this letter. In fact, if he does decide to be offended by your 'snooping' and complains about it then I think you got your answer.

    I would recommend one small addiction at the end. You start off by telling him you love him in the beginning and I think you need to end by saying it again. You say something like it at the end but you don't nail it. Saying difficult things to a person is better accepted when it's sandwiched between good things. The goal of the email is not to destroy him but to redeem him. Appeal to what's good in him. The letter speaks to the head but a good conclusion appeals to the heart and motivates a person to action.

    Otherwise, I think it's an excellent letter. I think it communicates clearly how you feel, your complaints, your desires, and what you hope will change. You provide examples that prove your point. You provide a road map for him to follow in order to rectify the situation. You even provide him with a way out of the relationship if that is his secret desire.
     
  18. I am writing a response to this..in meantime DO NOT Send letter to him PLEASE!!
     
  19. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

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  20. Yes Ma'am. Not to worry. It's not going anywhere for a few days and I imagine another revision or more will occur.

    Thanks @i_wanna_get_better1 for your input. All good points. Working on a new draft now. I'll post when I am happy with it. :)
     

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