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Slips, Lapse and Relapse (New Definitions)

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by EoT23, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. EoT23

    EoT23 Fapstronaut

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    I see the word Relapse used a lot on here. My friend whose going through a different addiction recovery program explained to me that he was taught that there is a difference between slips, lapses and a relapse. This is very important so pay close attention.

    A slip is giving in momentarily to weakness, like gazing at porn or edging. Doing either of these things is not 'Relapsing'. You have just slipped a little. Nothing too major. Nothing to go overboard with.

    A lapse is when you make a single break in your new found code PMO code, but within a short amount of time, (perhaps a week or so, depending on your average stretch of time) you snap back into your right mind and get yourself back on track. You can lapse once, twice or even three times and not be considered 'relapsing'.

    A relapse is when you go full throttle back into your old ways with little regard to what you have learned and done with behavior recovery. You drop all knowledge you've learned, stop caring about improving yourself and will even cease seeing the point to it. Many times this results in leaving the addiction recovery program. People who relapse are not beyond help, they are just temporarily harder to reach, until they hit bottom again or desire higher standards for themselves.

    From what i'm reading of what a lot of you are going through, not all of you are relapsing. In fact most of you are not. Please consider these definitions the next time you slip or lapse back into old behavior. You are not in as dramatic and bad of a place as you think you may be, and you do not need to be putting stress on yourself if you have slipped here or lapsed there.

    DO NOT USE THE WORD RELAPSE TO DESCRIBE YOUR LAPSING BEHAVIOR. Many of you may feel like things are too hard for you right now, and I have reason to believe that this is because you are using words to describe yourself that were defined as 'spiraling out of control'. Most of you do not fit this behavior in the slightest.

    If you are getting higher days every time you slip, learning new things to look out for every time you PMO, or you're being stable with the distance between lapses and not dropping out, or are still planning to stick to the road to recovery despite the odds, you have not relapsed at all- you are, in fact, improving in a addiction recovery program.

    So please stop being so hard on yourselves. Stay positive and keep your eye on the prize and remember why you are doing this. I know you can be better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
    beaverreaver and Ola85 like this.
  2. Nate007

    Nate007 Fapstronaut

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    i like this viewpoint, according to this, i have hit 95 days without relpse since i started nofap, i have lapsed a few times and slipped many, but i have always wanted to continue on this road.
     
    Sageria likes this.
  3. JohnnyChimpo

    JohnnyChimpo Fapstronaut

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    I think I'll just keep using the terminology I've been using, who are you to suddenly change the rules for everyone? I'm really sick to death of recovery program people trying to thrust their beliefs and terminology on people, If I feel I've relapsed by masturbating to porn like I did once last Thursday, I'll damn well say I've RELAPSED.
     
  4. Erboinq

    Erboinq Fapstronaut

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    Agreed. We each set our own goals, so logically we each set our own definitions of when we are and are not achieving those goals.
     
  5. I like what you're saying, but since on this site we each have our own definitions and goals, it's going to be different for each of us. For me, I don't want to make any excuses to let myself of the hook for a day. I could see myself easily justifying what I'm doing by thinking "I'm just going to do this for one day. It's just a lapse. Then I'll get back on track tomorrow."

    No. The way my brain stops working after a simple "lapse" is completely disheartening. I won't re-define these terms for myself.

    HOWEVER! I do agree with what you have to say at the end about being too hard on ourselves. Relapses (or lapses/resets/failures) are going to happen, and some people on here do get way to down-in-the-dumps and angry about it. It's ok to feel sad, and to use that as a reminder to stay away from PMO. But we have to dust ourselves off and keep going, which I believe is your main point. That just because we falter here and there, doesn't mean we've completely fallen away.
     
    slitebg likes this.
  6. EoT23

    EoT23 Fapstronaut

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    Hey buddy, i'm not change anyone's mind. And i'm not pushing my 'beliefs' on anyone. These definitions were set my people far more experienced then me or you in addiction recovery and psychology long before we got here. And i'm not a recovery program 'person'. I'm just a regular nine-to-five guy. But I have seen alcoholics and addicts lapse, and I've seen them RELAPSE- and let me tell you there is a big difference between the two.

    That is why i'm laying out for you guys what I learned, because half of the problem I see here is people getting all moody and upset over slips and lapses, which in the big picture are signs of progress. They claim they have had a 'relapse' and feel like there is no way out because a relapse diametrically opposed to success. A relapse is giving up and going the other way for an extended period of time. Relapses 180 degrees against progress in terms of behavior therapy.

    If you want to keep whining and be depressed about your 'relapse' then go ahead, i'm not going to stop you. I do not care what you think a relapse is. But most of you are using the term incorrectly. Words do have set definitions, and if you want to use them the wrong way go right ahead and ignore me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  7. EoT23

    EoT23 Fapstronaut

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    This is not about excuses. A lapse is to a relapse as a small tan is to a blistering sunburn.

    And I guarantee you that most people recovering from their addiction already tell themselves those same words when they start to PMO. "i'll get back onto it tomorrow." I've done it. That is what addictions do to people- when certain triggers are pulled they can put people in a trance and make them lose control of themselves. But this is a lapse in behavior, not a relapse.

    There is a reason why they call it a re-lapse. as opposed to just a lapse. It is deeper than a lapse in behavior. More consequential. More damaging.

    of course its disheartening. Slips are disheartening. You better be sad and uncomfortable and ashamed when you slip or you lapse, that means you have higher standards that you hold yourself too. But you are kidding yourself if you are using the word relapse, and you are still trying to improve upon your behavior. A relapse is the most extreme form of disruption in behavior therapy.

    If a someone came up to you and tried to convince you that a few pennies was actually $10 you would say they are fooling themselves. That is what a lapse is to a relapse. When you understand the difference between these things and you ponder what they mean you stumble upon a better understanding of what it means to 'recover' in terms of having an addiction. Many people here do not understand enough because they have not been educated properly, and this results in more frustration that is needed- which can lead to more 'failures' and stunted progress.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  8. EoT23

    EoT23 Fapstronaut

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    Exactly. Keep strong. Be smart enough to know when you've hit obstacles or even fallen down. But don't confuse that with turning around or giving up.
     
  9. Nevafapagain

    Nevafapagain Fapstronaut

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  10. JohnnyChimpo

    JohnnyChimpo Fapstronaut

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    I didn't whine or get depressed when I RELAPSED a week ago, I just don't care for people telling me I'm using the incorrect terms. You don't know anymore than I do about addiction, even if you use some mealymouthed terminology.

    I will go right ahead and ignore your bullshit, thanks for the permission.
     
  11. Morrow

    Morrow Fapstronaut

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    I think thats a great concept. I adopted it for my counter as you can see. Because every time i slip, I have the impression that I learn from it, so it cant be as terrible as a full relapse. I will call it a relapse when I masturbate intentionally when having full control and a slip when its more like an accident. Thank you for sharing!
     
  12. FormerSkeptic

    FormerSkeptic Fapstronaut

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    Like this post a lot. It really helps to contextualise recovery from a PMO habit in the same sense as other addictions. Its clear that there is a massive distiction from falling in your journey to recovery to abandoning the journey completely and going back to your old ways. If we as a community are to view a PMO habit as a true addiction then we would all be doing ourselves a big favour by aligning our thinking regards a moment of weakness, a lapse and completely abandoning our goal. You can argue semantics if you like, but its generally easier to use the same language as everyone else uses it in similar contexts.
     
  13. LowOnFuel

    LowOnFuel Fapstronaut

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    I'm also cool with these definitions. I don't really know if there's a significant difference between a slip and a lapse, but there's a big difference between those two and a relapse.

    Johnny Chimpo, if you call your slip/lapse a relapse, what would you call it if you'd one day just give up completely, thinking "screw this nofap", abandon this community, and dive deeply into P/M without any intention of getting back on surface?
     
  14. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    Rather presumptuous to make such statements based on a single program and without you knowing the backgrounds of the posters on this site. The doyen of the addiction field doesn't use the word "relapse" and uses another terminology (including "recycle"). So many could say that your program's definitions are wrong.

    I like the idea of using a "slip" but I don't agree with "lapses" in the context of PMO addiction. By that measure I would be close to 90 days or beyond it but I am at 25. You can look at the positive experiences that people have had at 90 days and I am not there yet. So then 90 will have to be switched to 180 or 245 or something else (which notice is delaying progress). And physiologically a lapse does not make sense because a "lapse," to use your terminology, strengths the dopamine pathways. So if you take 2 persons that are at 30 days, eg, and one had a lapse at 14 days, then from a physiologic standpoint they are both quite different and not equivalent at being at 30 days.
     
  15. NoFapAsian

    NoFapAsian Fapstronaut

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    I think people need to be strict with their counters. Otherwise everyone will "lapse" a couple of times and still think it's okay.
     
  16. Hiroki

    Hiroki Fapstronaut

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    Did you touch your wang for pleasure? Did you intentionally seek out scantily clad female media to stimulate yourself? If yes, and I don't care how curious you were to just have a peek or touchy touch, you failed. This is how I view failure for myself personally.

    It's all about being honest with yourself and telling little white lies, like waking up with some morning wood and thinking 'oh but my penis is so hard I'm just going to stroke it once or twice to admire the hardness of it'...or 'I'm just going to watch these steamy romantic movies to study romance, if I get turned on by the sex scenes that's just a bonus'.

    It's these little white lies that lead to slips that lead to full blown relapse.

    Stay true to yourself.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Justquit

    Justquit Fapstronaut

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    Just wanted to chime in w the surprisingly passionate opinions on what relapsing means... I like EoT23s explanation and I can relate and understand the differences to relapsing and just having a slip or lapse. In fact today I honestly can say I had my first slip since stopping pmo all together. I'm still on the bandwagon of sobriety and I'm learning from what lead up to that. I expect to have some chaser effects the next few days but I have absolutely no intention of slipping like that again.
    I've "relapsed" a number of times in my life where I've abstained for a week or more and then fell into pmo multiple times a day for months even years... What happened to me today was not that, my recovery still feels very strong it was just a hiccup. So there is a definite difference between the 2. Recovery is complicated, it's not as black and white as we'd like it to be, it's a roller coaster ride that has ups and downs, not just NO pmo or ALL pmo.
     
  18. Mission_I'm_possible

    Mission_I'm_possible Fapstronaut

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    :emoji_blush: 2014, the “good old days” when NoFap was new and everyone tried to figure out how to do it...

    By todays standards lapse = relapse... the standards been lifted,
    Hell some fapstronauts would consider a “slip” a relapse ( I wouldn’t if you who reading this slipped or even “lapsed” KEEP GOING!)

    On a personal note:
    I would have streaks beyond 90 days without any problem if a lapse weren’t considered a relapse, however my addiction is still very present thus : relapse = lapse
    However: relapse ≠ slip
     
    CarP likes this.

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