First time rebooter, questions about M and O

Those thoughts will be the strongest during your detox and you will have to continue to ignore them even months down the road. Those thoughts is the illness talking. It's trying to get you to compromise. It's testing your boundaries to see what it will allow you to do. You must not look at anything sexually stimulating... period. I wrote down a list of lies my mind would whisper to me and then I wrote down the truth right next to it. Every time I'd get an idea to watch porn then I'd counter it with the truth on my list.

Is your wife aware that you are going through a reboot? Abstaining from sex is a personal choice. Engaging in healthy sex is important to start healing your relationship. If you are unable to be present mentally during sex, if you have porn flashbacks, if you have strong urges to bring your porn fantasies to life, if you get an intense chaser effect, or if you objectify your wife then you need to take a break. Single people need to abstain if hook-ups, one night stands, friends with benefits, prostitutes, escorts, or massage parlors are part of their unhealthy sex routine. This is not a decision to make unilaterally... talk it over with your wife and agree to a set timetable to resume.

 

NoFap does not take a stand on masturbation without porn. But anecdotal evidence shows that many times M leads to watching porn which leads to a relapse because the person uses their imagination to create a scenario in which to M. Those images eventually grow stale because the mind wants to work with new material. From a conditioning point of view you are still training your body to respond to your own hand instead of your wife. A person who was never addicted might be able to M without consequences but we have neural pathways that need to never be activated again or we risk going backwards. Since you are married why not work with your wife instead of turning to self gratification.

The first few weeks are the hardest. Your body and your mind is fighting against you relentlessly. It is a mind game that you are playing against yourself. It gets easier after about 2 weeks. This is your detox phase. Imagine a heroin addict going through detox... we go through a similar detox except our drugs of choice are porn and dopamine. The fight gets easier. Just avoid as many triggers as possible and build an emergency toolkit of coping skills and distractions.

 

Only you can find the path that fits you best.

I am maintaining my intimacy with my GF during my reboot. That is a path that is open to you. However, be open minded about it. Don't expect that sex with her can fill the gap you have. She can't be 1000's of women dressed in all manners found in all circumstances. While I know that wasn't your question, just keep in mind that it's good to keep the relationship healthy and the connection strong, but don't rationalize that you can 'fix it' by just being with her. I keep my GF in my mind as my reason. I do this to be better for her. It's also important to not that if you are dealing with a lack of sensitivity issue, then you aren't going to suddenly regain it. It will be gradual, and perhaps lead you to doubts about the whole reboot.

As others have said, NoFap isn't strict on masturbation. However, if you are suffering from 'sensitivity issues', masturbation can cause the issue to be very low to heal. And if you haven't done masturbation in awhile without porn, I can tell you it's quite different, and sometimes when you stop, you can't be successful with it. In those cases, if you don't believe you can delay masturbation until you're done with a reboot, you can engage. (There are some very strict caveots that need to be followed). First you have to not use porn or any external visuals. Next, (and this is nearly impossible), but you must try to refrain from using fantasy, or memories of porn. (At least try to hold out as long as you can about it). Finally, if at all possible use a decent male toy, with lubrication, and try to be as less aggressive as possible. (There is some idea that masturbation has lead to your sensitivity issue by being too rough, and causing the skin to become less sensitive). If you do masturbate, try to hold out as long as you can in the reboot. I personally found that if I did this every week for within the first two weeks of a reboot, that I didn't see any progress. Only you can know, but I would advise you to try to make it to the end of the second week first, and then try to limit the times you do engage in masturbation to less than once a week.

In any case, stay strong. I'm on day 39 of my reboot. I can see all kinds of changes happening. I believe my ED may be a thing of the past now. (But I have been 4 weeks without masturbation).

Think of this as a workout. Try as to stay devoted as long as you can, but don't break yourself and your worth if you do end up letting go, and restarting. Each time is a struggle and it strengthens you. Doubt and rationalization are a normal thing, and you will ask yourself, "why am I bothering? Is this going to work? Is she really worth this anway?" But from someone that is slightly more ahead of you on the curve, I can say I'm seeing changes. I know my GF is worth it, and I know I'm worth it. I am bothering, because I know how meaningless and empty sex can be without this effort to connect (I'm getting divorced because of it).

If you need some ideas of how to beat the urges... we all have a few here. Just ask. But honestly, it's a difficult thing to do. We can do it, we are strong.

 

Same situation here. Will have sex with partner, but definitely no P and no M for at least 90 days. I don't plan to use P ever again, but for right now I don't even want to look or think about it. The chaser effect, though, when you have normal sex is pretty ugly and has thrown off my previous attempts. Only on day 3 of this reboot, but so far so good and all the urges have done is remind me of my resolve to quit P forever. Early yet, though....

 

May I suggest that you endeavour not to P or M at all for any reason. Also, that you only have sex when your wife feels the need. It may well be that your "overactive sex drive" is to do with the constant fuel of dopamine via PMO over the years.

 

Totally on board with that. For now anyway I'm so disgusted with myself that P has little allure, but if I M, that will likely lead to P, so none of it. And hear hear on only doing it when she wants it or it happens "naturally". I'm going for as pure a reboot as I can given my situation. I'd be willing to disclose all this to wife, but I have considerable shame about it, so for now I'm trying to be discreet. And really this is my struggle.

Thanks.

 

As a significant other on this journey, I can tell you that for me, the secrets hurt the worst. I can't imagine anyone NOT having considerable shame when they fully grasp the damage they have caused. The openness and sharing we have had since the discovery has brought us closer. I might suggest you reconsider bringing her in on what's going on with you.

 

Your wife can be the best partner in fixing this issue. If you work on how to clearly communicate the issue, and how to not come across threatening in the communication. They will feel insecure (no way to avoid it), but empowered. Being proactive on this, and telling them you have a problem, but you have a solution, and want them to participate in, can actually be very liberating for both of you.

Here are some important details in to focus on:

1. It's important to focus on the fact that this is your issue. That she has done nothing wrong, nor do you feel that your intimacy is bad. Need to communicate this as an addiction and a habit that has going way back (if you are like most here, all the way to your childhood).

2. Need to communicate that you are not cheating. (That you have not had sexual intimacy with another person). You need to communicate that your addiction to porn isn't about desiring women other than her. (That's an attraction to sex, and watching sex, not about cheating or wanting anyone other than her). (Hopefully you do realize that so that its the truth)

3. Need to communicate that she can't out-sex this addiction. She needs to know that you don't expect her to work harder or force intimacy. Addiction to porn can't be combated by real life sex.

4. Need to communicate clearly what you are going to do (NoFap reboot). Talk to her about it. If she feels hurt, let her join the forum so she can hear from other significant others about this issue. (While I'm not as big fan of the site, 'yourbrainonporn' is a good site for explaining addiction which she might understand).

5. Don't be tempted to show her your porn tastes. (While it might be telling at some point, showing her actual examples will likely threaten her. She won't see what you see, she will see anything she feel she isn't, and think that is what you desire. In short, it is far harder on her if you show. Later in your reboot, if you want to communicate with her, maybe you can use it as a tool, but there is so much risk for harm than help. So don't be tempted)

6. If she is comfortable, ask if she can be your accountability partner. (Again tell her that she isn't your mom, therapist, or priest, and that you don't need her to), but telling her that you want to be clear, and communicate if you end up messing up, that it will be helpful. Again, don't put this on her.

7. If she is comfortable, ask her if she would be open to doing a couples bonding practice. There is one called Fanos. It's lightweight and can help increase your connection. Again, don't put the issue on her. But tell her that you think this is a chance to strengthen your connection, and it would be helpful as you fight this addiction if you can channel all that into being more of a partner to her.

 

In the hard mode, is it a good habit to kiss and touch my girlfriend? (Especially if i have erections doing these)