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Becoming a woman!?!

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Tschoo, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    Most women do not want to be treated equally, and until that happens, I don't see that women will receive equal treatment. Eg, mandatory drafts for males in many countries (it's not the case that women cannot perform equally as men in the military, except for rare exceptions), men giving up their lives (eg, the Titanic) to save women, holding open doors, paying for meals, etc. Most women believe that they can abort or have a baby regardless of the father's opinion. So they believe that they have full responsibility after conception but if they decide to have the child they expect the father to pay child support. There is maternity leave but much harder to get paternity leave. Men are overwhelmingly in more dangerous occupations (which women could enter as well).

    If one expects to be treated equally, it seems to me that there should be mandatory draft enrollment for women, both parents would have equal input into carrying a pregnancy to term, absence of preferential treatment for women, etc. Once this happens I think that women will be treated and considered equal.
     
  2. I think it would be too early to assert that women are overwhelmingly avoiding PMO recovery sites because of societal pressure. Seeing as this site is anonymous, anyone should be able to come forward. The nature of addiction makes anyone hesitant to report it.

    While it is anecdotal, the sheer amount of stories about discovering porn as a pubescent boy indicates that the desire for immediate gratification of the sexual impulse is far more burdening on the budding boy than it is the girl. Men have millions upon millions of sperm cells to get rid of per ejaculation. I speculate that this causes boys to seek establishment of the virtual "harem" ASAP. The accessibility and availability of porn make such an individual hapless in most cases to avoid consuming the material. I'm amazed that anyone under 16 can even attempt Nofap.

    I haven't read too many stories about women and porn, but the ones I remember report that the problem (and even discovery) began after particular stresses from the environment were introduced, later in their growth (early 20's).

    I also think you can provide evidence when comparing the male ejaculation to the female orgasm, the male has a high peak which immediately falls into a low valley, whereas females don't have as much of an energy loss.

    I think nature is feminine based on my own experiences with psychedelics and reading (read the Dune saga, it explains the point pretty well). Essentially women, like nature, create and sustain life. Women are more prone to sustaining the species, whereas men are more prone to acting on their ownshort-term impulses.
     
  3. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    I'm not saying women are avoiding PMO websites because of societal pressures, I'm saying that women are less exposed to PMO in the first place because of both societal and cultural norms/pressure as well as the fact that most PMO was probably developed for, and aimed at, males, the latter which could have been happenstance and evolved differently. For the former, there are a plethora of examples on the Internet of males discussing or mentioning P to each other, but never an example of a female discussing P with friends. In fact on this forum or on reddit a woman mentioned how it is not socially acceptable to mention P among friends. Just as there are demographic changes such as women entering the workforce and taking positions that were traditionally in male-dominated fields, I think PMO use is unfortunately increasing among women. It was thought for a very long period of time that heart disease only happened in men. Now it is recognized that 50% of heart disease happens in women. Just because PMO use may be overwhelming in men, doesn't mean that men have some inherent predisposition to it. It would be like saying that men have an innate ability in science because scientists are overwhelmingly male.

    From conversations I have had with girls and posts I have read (am not going to give my own opinion), I have not seen that there is any less sexual impulse or curiosity or interest in girls compared to boys.

    Men create and sustain life as well. I don't think there is any evidence for women being more prone to sustaining the species than men.
     
  4. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    One person can never truly understand the inner experience of another, but it occurs to me that we could learn something about male vs. female sex drive by asking transgendered people on hormone replacements about their experience. From the few accounts I've come across, MTF typically feel more under control, and FTM experience a huge bump up in their libido. This, plus differences in behavior between men and women across cultures and history, plus studies of animal analogues (rats, for instance) leads me to believe that males as a group are biologically more susceptible to visual porn, and to masturbating in general. No value judgements here. It's just (I think) a different way of experiencing life.
     
  5. Shep

    Shep Fapstronaut

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    I throw like a girl so ... cest la vie.
     
  6. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    For some reason your description of hapless boys called to mind the image of bullfrogs in a koi pond. (Why do I have stuff like this in my head?)
    Quite a problem for fish keepers, the male bullfrogs, helpless to resist the koi's round bodies, strangle fishes in a fatal mating embrace. They literally can't help it. The koi's shape hyper-stimulates the frogs' brains, and unlike picky female frogs, fish don't have legs with which to kick away rejected suitors. Oops. Nature is full of weird stuff like that. LINK WITH POSSIBLE TRIGGERS.
     
  7. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    What's the evidence for any of this, beyond social, culture, or gender norms? Taking just visual porn, eg, how would studies in rats have any transferability to humans? Differences in behavior not does equate to differences in susceptibility to visual porn. This sounds like your personal opinion.

    Very difficult to try to understand female vs. male sex drive using transgendered persons, firstly because the sample size is small (there are plenty of examples of conclusions turning 180 degrees after sample sizes are increased), but also we don't necessarily know the initial biological gender, people can be genetically male or female but phenotypically (and hormonally) the opposite.
     
  8. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Stygian, yup, it's an unscientific opinion.

    I'm not going to assemble a whole developmental biology course here just to try to change your mind, but people have thought about the points you've made and discussed them at length in academe. Just for brevity, I'll sum up my amazing understanding of the scientific consensus on the matter with, "Boys and girls different (on average). Hormones do stuff." But we can agree to disagree I hope.
     
  9. Tschoo

    Tschoo Fapstronaut

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    boy do I like to trigger controversies! But I guess thats necessary to prevent nofap from becoming a circle-jerk.
     
  10. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Probably the same way they are transferable in case of the well-known to us (via first-hand experience to many) Coolidge Effect, which was also discovered initially on rats.
     
  11. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    I was referring specifically to visual porn studies, not animal studies in general. There is long history of things sometimes being very different, but also can be very similar, in animals and humans.
     
  12. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    You don't have to acquiesce if you have some extensive knowledge of why your assertions are true, but you didn't give any reason for anyone to believe why it might be the case, except your mentioning that you have personal experience. I'm not sure if you're a scientist, but complex debates often cannot be summarized in short soundbites, which the media often do and push scientists into making such catchy statements so that they can write a news article or TV report on it, regardless of how false or misleading the statements are. I did not touch the subject of masturbation but with regard to visual porn, I would argue, based on literature I have seen, that differences in gender, if they exist, are NOT based on hormones. I haven't stated my position so I'm not sure how you can agree to disagree with me?
     
  13. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Okay, well, my opinion is far from expert. All I have are a few graduate courses under my belt and some light reading. I've eaten snacks with developmental biologists. It's astonishing how much we don't know, and how much other people do know that we don't have time enough to explore ourselves. Of course the media sucks at relaying science. If you're interested, let me just give a big plug for the work of Frank Keil (Here's an article of his). I've heard him speak in person - totally blew my mind.

    I thought we disagreed because it sounded like you were advocating for the social constructionist theory of gender, based on a number of your statements put together. There's a school of thought that, at its extreme end, gets downright weird in my opinion (Gender neutral parenting is great, but when you take it this far? I don't know.). My husband, who has eaten snacks with anthropologists, had to read a lot of books on the subject, so I have some appreciation for just how deep THAT rabbit hole goes.

    Peace!
     
  14. Finalfight123

    Finalfight123 Fapstronaut

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    Wow you guys have really gone off on tangents but it is quite interesting.

    So first off I've gotten the whole women pmoing thing as like she independent "she don't need a man" and the guy doing it as oh he could never get a girl or he's just some loser.

    So stygian you believe that the differences aren't hormones. I mean then what is it I would like to hear what you think.

    But somewhat back to the beginning about calling guys "pussies" you have to look at the root which is calling out who he thinks of himself and at the same time calling out girls as somewhat less in rare cases it can help but most it just makes him question who he is and makes people do rash and retorted things. Although you'll never be able to change it you can change how you take in the words and that at your core you know who you are and that words are truly meaningless and that actions are truly what defines you.

    Thats my take there was a lot of info I just kinda skimmed so I might have missed something. Well Sty lets hear your take it would be nice to hear.
     

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