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Ogle ogle ogle

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Forte B., Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Forte B.

    Forte B. Fapstronaut

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    So I'm nearly 180 days in and i'm doing good in terms of not being too tempted to go back to PMO and i'm focusing on moving forward to being completely free from it. However one thing has really been a pain in the ass for me for a while now (and by extension @wildwood): Ogling.

    In my journal, I mention having a serious problem with it where I can't go a shift (most of the time) without catching my self looking at random women who walk by. I'm trying to be able to control it to the point I don't NEED to look. I've tried the following techniques to little success:
    • 3 Second Rule
    • Rubber band (AKA pain association)
    • Red X when the thought pops up
    • Just pure willpower
    • keeping myself busy with work
    I have heard of the No arousal method, but i'm unsure on where to start with that.
    I'm just at my wits end about it and I really need to do something about it.

    I'll just also tag a few people who may answer me in a well thought out fashion @Sun Bro @NoBrainer @alexander @Haggis and I bet others will be able to help out.

    Thanks in advance

    ~Forte
     
  2. Ninjacan

    Ninjacan Fapstronaut

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    Have you considered just not feeling guilty about doing it? Looking/glancing is nearly impossible to resist. It's not an addiction thing, it's natural. We all feel that pull and can't help it. You will look. There is a difference between looking at someone and ogling them. If some attractive girl walks by, you will notice her, you can look at her it's ok!

    I like your 3 second rule, that seems totally reasonable. I would also suggest, just communicating with these girls. Remember, they're people, look them in the eye, smile, nod, say hello. It'll feel a lot more natural on both sides.

    When you feel guilty about it, and like you're doing something wrong every time you notice a hot girl walk by, it makes it more awkward and more uncomfortable. If you check out a girl for 2 seconds, and then quickly turn away and try to focus on work or the big red X or whatever, and they notice you checked them out, it's much more awkward than if you just look them straight and the eye, smile and say hello. Keep positive, remember we're all just human beings dealing with the same shit. There's nothing wrong with you, and there's nothing wrong with looking at an attractive woman, and feeling that attraction. That's how we're wired.
     
  3. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    Well, buddy, I'm going to be straightforward with you. This stuff is conditioned into you so badly that I can see how much trouble it is giving you.

    My suggestion is don't just tell yourself to stop looking at them. Make a habit of not look at their body and just the area above the shoulders. Train your mind (even if you have to fight it) to not look anywhere else. Take this step first. Train your mind to do this and then it will be much easier to convince your mind that looking at them at all (unless they talk to you or draw your attention in some way) is pointless.

    If it helps, train your mind to associate you looking at them as hurting wildwood. Train your mind to be like "oh there is a woman over there, oh god! I'm hurting wildwood!" or something similar lol. It really isn't that hard, you just have to find what's best for you. I think it was so easy for me (easier than most at least) because I was able to separate myself from the urge to look and the idea of seuxalization.

    You have to look at them with innocence. If you even feel a hint of malificence coming through, don't look there direction. At least until you can control yourself. Train yourself to scold yourself and you will eventually feel your mind ease into looking where you need to and when you need to.

    @NoBrainer is having the same problem as you. What do you think about the situation buddy?
     
    ronswanson and Strugglesaurus like this.
  4. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    I understand where you are coming from and it makes sense you would say these things, but a lot of fapstronaunts have realized that they don't want to look at women as objects anymore.

    I would like to tell you that it isn't how we are wired. It is how society says we are wired, just like society views porn as okay and normal. I have escaped the hold of objectification and so can he.

    He is hurting his SO every time he looks at another woman that way. He wants to stop for a good reason. It is possible because I am living proof. Those women are not there for us to look at. They are living, breathing people just like us. We need to treat them as such.
     
  5. Ninjacan

    Ninjacan Fapstronaut

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    Well I think you are wrong that it is just society conditioning us to look at girls. I never used to look at girls the way I look at them now. I remember when I was a kid, in my early teens, I used to see my dad really ogling, and I was embarrassed for him. I didn't get it. Why is he obsessed with every girl that walks by. I couldn't wrap my head around it, I thought it was stupid. Now I have the same feelings. I wasn't pressured into being like this. Society never told me I should check out girls whenever they walk by, it just happens sometimes. So I think you're wrong if you think it's unnatural and something that can be fixed.

    That being said, I also think you're missing something from my reply. I'm not saying look at them as sex objects, nor am I condoning that. I'm saying that, you need to accept yourself. You need to realize that, you have these feelings and desires, and it's natural. We are NOT supermen. We can't just fight off every animal instinct we've evolved to have. We are week, we are vulnerable. Only once we accept that, and forgive ourselves, can we really be in control of those feelings. Feeling badly about it and forcing yourself not to is not the answer.

    There is a time for raw willpower. When you're home alone in front of a computer, bored, feeling down, whatever the case may be, and it's so easy to give into that temptation. Then, you need to access your situation and get yourself out of it. But when you're working, and constantly surrounded by beautiful women, I'm not saying like, just spend the whole day staring at them, but if you can't help but notice some as they walk by, don't beat yourself up over it. Just act like a real human being, and interact with the people around you. Don't listen to this guy. It's ok to have those feelings! We all have them.

    It's your actions that define you, that determine your character. You're never going to be able to stop yourself from having sexual thoughts. But listen, the issue is not black and white. It is not a choice between:
    1. give into those thoughts and just let go, allow yourself to fantasize, PMO, ogle etc
    or
    2. RESIST! Train your mind to think differently, focus on something else, fight the urge with all your might! Be the master of your destiny!

    No. We all have these thoughts, just accept it, and move on. Don't obsess, and don't feel bad.
     
  6. It's not the direction of your eyes, it's in your mind! If you see a girl and you find her attractive, cool, just move on. You don't need to dwell on your thoughts and stuff, just acknowledge beauty and move on with life. Either that or you go talk with them, because they're not sexual objects but people, with personalities, life goals et cetera, just like you. Form true relationships with them, interact and communicate with them, that's gonna improve your social life and you will be more attractive as well.

    Of course, there's a line of going too far with everything in life. I'd like to agree with Ninjacan about this topic, that we're naturally drawn towards the opposite sex since the beginning of time. If you think about it, sexual energy is there for a reason, these feelings of attraction are real and natural! But just like I said, it's all in the mind! If you find someone attractive, that's cool, no problem. When do you cross the line? Where is the line of going too far drawn? When you use someone's personal image for sexual fantasies and thoughts, you're objectifying them and that's when things start getting screwed up.

    I'm not too familiar with the "3 second rule" you mentioned but from what I assume, it's a pretty good thing to implement into your lifestyle. If you catch yourself viewing them in a sexual way and your mind starts being dirty, then the rubber band and willpower should kick in. I'd recommend that you go out and expand your social circle, especially when you have sexual energy built up within you. View them as people, not sexual objects! Good luck, peace.
     
    pornisnotrealsex likes this.
  7. Strugglesaurus

    Strugglesaurus Fapstronaut

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    We are not "feeling badly and forcing ourselves not to". We are relinquishing the hold our impulsive porn-induced behavior has on us. Ogling is not natural. 'Checking out' is ogling. Looking at others for their body parts is sexual objectification. It doesn't matter how often you do it. I feel wrong when I look at another person that way. Not just because I have an SO, but because it doesn't feel right to look at people for my enjoyment or satisfaction.

    Society has conditioned us to believe it is okay. Society includes your family (your dad for example), your friends, your idols, media (tv, movies), etc. All of it has influenced us from an early age to habitually look upon women and men with desire and selfishness. They are human beings. Sure, you can notice a nice face, but that's as far as it should go in my eyes.

    Yes, sexual feelings are natural. But sexual feelings should only arise once you start forming a relationship with the person. Feeling sexually attracted to some random person on the street is not natural. Porn and media have conditioned us to believe that we should evaluate every person walking by for attractiveness, sexual or otherwise. The second you start looking at them because they are attractive with no intention of talking to them to explore a potential relationship, you are objectifying them. They are nothing more than a pretty little picture to spice up your day.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  8. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    I'm sorry if I upset you man, but I know we can fix it because I have fixed it. I don't want to tell you this because you are just going to argue with me, but you are in denial. We all go through it. We all think what we are doing is "biological" or "normal".

    Technically, you proved my point with the statement:
    "I remember when I was a kid, in my early teens, I used to see my dad really ogling, and I was embarrassed for him. I couldn't wrap my head around it, I thought it was stupid. Now I have the same feelings."

    Why didn't you feel that way when you were a kid? Because it isn't a feeling. It is a thought. A thought put into your brain that that is how you are suppose to be. It was put into your dad's brain too and he taught it to you and so did your friends. You aren't born to ogle women or stare at their body parts.

    I wish I prove it to you, but I don't live anywhere near you so I can't show you just how easy it is to get rid of this habit. Remember, it isn't a feeling. It is a thought. You have to think about doing these things. Even for a split second. It is nurtured behavior, not nature.

    You look at women that way because you are taught to and because you were taught to want to and think it was normal, just like, dare I say it, porn.

    I never once scolded him for what he did. We all do/did it. It isn't something to get scolded about, but it is something that we can get over. It is a learned behavior. You weren't born with it, so where did it come from? I know you can see the truth man. You can't tell me I'm wrong because I'm not spouting an opinion. I am spouting fact. I know that we can overcome it because I have.

    There is nothing to argue about here except how he need to do it. It isn't natural. It isn't okay. Every tin he looks at another woman that way he is betraying his SO and his wife. I'm sure if you had/told an SO she would feel the same way. Betrayal.

    The world doesn't actually work the most people think it does.
     
  9. wildwood

    wildwood Fapstronaut

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    As the OP's girlfriend who was a webcam and pmo addict I most definitely used to ogle and objectify men and women. It's not about finding someone attractive (which is completely normal) it's about only looking at them as only a body part. I no longer stare at butts, boobs, men's crotches, ect. It's about looking at people as people. Taking charge of our own minds. Struggle worded it beautifully.
     
  10. Thechosenone

    Thechosenone Fapstronaut

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    Looking at IRL women isn't as bad as pixels on a screen, try and embrace it, say thank you in your head - thanks that yourr able to experience your libido that it works properly etc

    Elliot hulse made a video on list love and masturbation check it out mayne
     
  11. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Gee, thanks. What assumption is it that you're making of me now? :mad:
     
  12. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Exactly. This is the assumption you have made about me. Nowhere have I said that I have been struggling with ogling lately.
    Hmm, well I see this as denying responsibility. So much for us being 'friends'. :(
     
    Zerg Prosecutor likes this.
  13. IGY

    IGY Guest

    I couldn't disagree more Kailey. This is an extreme and unreasonable interpretation of what is being discussed here. :(

    For example, can any human being stop a sexual image or impulse occurring in their brain? No. What we can do is find ways to manage it. So, when a sexual feeling or image comes mind, we can endeavour to replace it with something sexually neutral. However, you assert that, "Feeling sexually attracted to some random person on the street is not natural." This is not realistic, normal or natural. Sexual attraction is natural. But you posit that sexual attraction is only natural if you have the, "intention of talking to them to explore a potential relationship." This is staggeringly untrue and to impose your personal version of sexual attraction on others is only going to cause unnecessary guilt. I suggest that you carefully reconsider your personal opinion on this.
     
  14. IGY

    IGY Guest

    @NoBrainer is not "having trouble with ogling", and you owe him an apology @Sun Bro. There was no call for your nasty comment: "You need to get your head on straight before you go being mean... I'm just going to ignore you." :eek: Come on!
     
  15. Forte B.

    Forte B. Fapstronaut

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    Wow I didn't expect to get a bunch of replies here considering last time I asked, I got jack shit for responses. :eek:

    @Ninjacan @Kallosthenos I understand what you mean about it being natural to look at a woman and see that she is beautiful and all that. women, no people in general are beautiful. The problem becomes (at least for me) when the first thing I look at on a woman is not her face, but her ass or breasts or legs or whatever. It got so bad that I would constantly just stare and fantasize about what it would be like in a sexual situation (i'm talking porn level of fantasy) with them. It just doesn't seem to me that i'm looking at her as a whole but as "nice rack #3087" or whatever. Communicating (at work saying "Need any help") will more than likely humanize them to me and I will view them as real people, but I shouldn't have to resort to talking to every attractive girl at work to not ogle. I should be able to walk by and if she doesn't need help not to linger and continue on my way

    @Sun Bro @Strugglesaurus Always appreciate the input from you two, but is it weird that I took similar things from ninjacan and yours? maybe i'm just taking what I like from his reply and I will probably do the same with yours. I see your idea sunbro about saying i'm hurting her by doing this, and I actually have tried this and all it does is put WAY too much pressure on me to not look and I end up looking anyways. You know the whole thing when someone tries not to do something and they say "i'm not gonna do this" over and over and they end up doing it anyways? I'd start feeling even worse about myself (and I mean beating the shit out of myself like fight club style) when I would be like "I can't ogle, i can't, don't." over and over and it wouldn't work. Doesn't mean i'm gonna give up, I just need to keep on it.

    also, @Sun Bro I agree with @IGY, If you got beef with @NoBrainer squash it in a private convo, not here.

    Also @IGY, What would be something sexual neutral to replace the sexual negativity I have? just asking for a bit more elaboration.
     
  16. Zerg Prosecutor

    Zerg Prosecutor Fapstronaut

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    Are you saying that ogling is not a natural instinct?
    I always thought that it has to do more with our biology than porn.
     
  17. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Our thoughts go in a particular direction, unless we intercept them. So, to avoid dwelling on sexual thoughts we need to replace them with something nonsexual. I suppose the most effective method is to choose something that has it's own hard wired pattern. For example, if you are into F1 racing, you could try and remember all the circuits they race at during the year. Even if your mind wanders, it is likely to do so within the subject you have chosen - perhaps your favourite driver or the team you like. But it could be to do with food - favourite dishes, cuisines, restaurants... just about anything really. I find that doing this is enough to break the spell if the initial sexual attraction becomes a focus, fixation or fantasy. :)
     
  18. Strugglesaurus

    Strugglesaurus Fapstronaut

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    No, IGY. I don't believe feeling sexually attracted to a stranger across the street, or wherever you see them, is natural. Though, I agree that we should all find ways of managing sexual thoughts and feelings when we have them. I'm not imposing anything on Forte B. or other fapstronauts. Like you said, it is merely my personal opinion. ;) The wonderful thing about this is, you and others can read my post and take what you will -or won't- from it.
     
  19. Zerg Prosecutor

    Zerg Prosecutor Fapstronaut

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    What exactly do you mean by natural and why do you think that it is not natural?
     
  20. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Yes, @Strugglesaurus, we do agree on this point. Thank you for not taking my point of view as a personal attack love. :)
     

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