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I'm a 41 year old male and I freaking love The Bachelor/Bachelorette

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by SuperFan, May 14, 2019.

  1. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Hannah believes that too. She's said so several times, and she'll say it again tonight. But she's also being real about the fact that she struggles with it. She's a hot 24-year old being pursued by a bunch of attractive men, while living in a nation whose culture is saturated with sex and where porn is mainstream. Before this show, she had only kissed five men, ever. It's unfair of us to judge her when she's in the middle of a whirlwind of euphoric circumstances (Latvia! The Netherlands! Greece! Airplanes! Yachts! Naked Bungee!) that none of us could possibly understand. It doesn't make it less sinful, it doesn't make it okay--but it does push me to extend a little grace.

    And I do indeed think Luke has a right to feel that way. I just think it's a bit disingenuous for him to be so focused on that particular thing when the rest of his behavior is completely jacked up. It's like a fat, gluttonous, hateful Westboro baptist telling gays their sex is sinful (which it is, but no more sinful than the Westboro member's hatred and gluttony).

    It's been said that insecurity and narcissism are two sides of the same coin. Trump, for instance, is a perfect example--he's a billionaire who's the leader of the free world, and yet has such a thin skin that he can't take an insult from a low-level media personality without hitting back twice as hard. Luke is similar in that respect. On one hand, he seems to be overflowing with confidence in his connection with Hannah--but the second he hears about her enjoying a date with someone else, he virtually implodes. In fact, the producers intentionally cut to him every time anyone talks about another date, because he's so good for those reaction shots. Does he truly have strong convictions about sex before marriage? Sure, I don't doubt that. But I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that part of his reason for drawing that line in the sand is because he's insecure and the thought of her having physical chemistry with anyone else drives him insane.

    He's said over and over that "Hannah would never do that / she's not that type of girl / etc etc" ... remember when he said "there's no way" she went naked bungee jumping with Garrett? Well, if he's so convinced that she shares his values, why does he need to have a huge conversation with her about it?

    We only know of Luke's shower epiphany. We don't actually know his testimony of how he came to receive Jesus as his savior. I suspect Luke was raised in a Christian home and was a believer before his Shower in Damascus. But before that event, I imagine he was probably a Lukewarm (see what I did there?) believer who was banging every smokeshow who came his way with little guilt over it. But then he has this experience, and it leaves him changed--at least, when it comes to sexual purity (since pride, lies, and deception seem to still be, like totally okay).

    So why is it okay for him to hold that standard over Hannah when maybe she hasn't had her own epiphany experience yet? The Bible was there for Luke's consumption long before he had the shower, why was that what finally got his attention? This is why I think he's being hypocritical. He's expecting Hannah to have the exact same standards when he had the benefit of a personal encounter, and she, most likely, hasn't (otherwise we probably would have heard of it in response to the five times Luke has told her his story).
     
  2. No, she does not. She is actively sinning and completely unapologetic about it, and she has said so in several interviews.

    I'm really done with this conversation. It's going nowhere.
     
  3. I will extend more than a little grace -- the fullness of God's grace -- to ANYONE who admits they have sinned and repents from it. She hasn't done that at all. She maintains that she is compeltley allowed to do whatever she wants, because Jesus will just forgive her for it and won't judge her. That's what she herself has said many times.
     
  4. I'm sorry, are you for real with this paragraph? How do you not see the glaring problems with what you just said?

    He thought he knew her and knew that she wouldn't do that, and then when he found out she DID do it, he was shocked and realized he must not really know her like he thought he did. So of COURSE he would need to have a big conversation about that!

    I honestly am completely flabbergasted by your lack of logic here. What you just said makes absolutely no sense at all.
     
  5. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    You're extending an avalanche of grace toward Luke, who hasn't repented of a single thing.

    At the 3:00 mark. She says explicitly, "I believe sex was made for a man and woman, in marriage." She has no illusions that sex outside of marriage is somehow "totally fine".



    Here's what we know, now that tonight's episode has aired:
    • As soon as Luke realized things weren't going according to plan, he went into immediate damage control mode, doing everything he could to "re-explain" or say the right thing to make Hannah keep him. Just like he's done 146 other times. Even he recognized he couldn't play this card much longer, because he said, "not to get into being 'misunderstood', because I've been misunderstood a lot in this process" (aka "I've had to re-explain things 50x because things didn't go my way")
    • Thank God, Hannah made mention of Luke's pride, and the fact that it's a sin he has conveniently ignored in his own life.
    • He backtracked and essentially said, "in spite of everything I've said over the last 10 minutes, whatever you've done doesn't change the way I feel about you or about our future," even though just moments ago, he said exactly the opposite thing.
    • When she told him to get in the limo, he actually asked if he could PRAY for her--a disgustingly manipulative effort to show how spiritual he is, in hopes that she'd change her mind at the last minute.
    • As next week's promo revealed, Luke will come back--exactly like I predicted--and make a final play to win Hannah over, except it will backfire in a big way.
    Seriously. I'm done with that guy. It was the most epic send-off ever, and I'll be glad to see him get it a second time when both Hannah and the other guys let him have it.
     
  6. That's false. He has repented of his past sexual sin, and that's what I'm extending him grace for.

    And yes, Hannah has said that she believes that, but then she goes and has sex outside of marriage and shows zero remorse about it, proudly declaring "I f****d in a windmill, and it was great! And guess what? We did it a second time too!" And she continues to preach that on Twitter and Instagram. Still zero remorse shown, at least publicly, and she still says that she can do whatever she wants without being judged and it doesn't matter.

    The issue isn't that Hannah doesn't recognize that sex outside of marriage is sin. The issue is that she seems to not care at all about whether or not she sins, because "Jesus will just forgive me." That's a complete abuse of God's grace.

    Hebrews 10 says this:
    If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
    27
    but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
    28
    Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
    29
    How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
    30
    For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," [4] and again, "The Lord will judge his people." [5]
    31
    It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


    The way Hannah is living is described as trampling the Son of God underfoot, treating His blood as an unholy thing, and insulting the Spirit of grace. Forgive me for thinking that's not okay.

    She's been very clear on social media and in interviews since all of this, that she doesn't feel sorry or repentant at all. The very second that changes and she recognizes that sin is a big deal and you can't just do whatever you want and say "thanks for the grace, God" and keep on sinning, I will be completely supportive of her and give her all the grace in the world, because we are all flawed and we all sin. But the way she is living and abusing God's grace is a completely insult. And that's not even just my opinion, it's straight from the word of God.

    If you disagree with that, then that's your choice, but I'm not going to be changing my stance on this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2019
  7. Okay, I just watched Luke and Hannah's date, and again, I'm completely confounded at how any Christian person could say that anything Luke is saying is wrong.

    He said he's been learning about how the Bible says to keep the marriage bed pure, he said that he knows she isn't a virgin and he isn't either and he clearly isn't judging her for that, and he says that he wants to hear from her what she believes because sometimes people profess their faith but then come on this show and say "I'm excited to explore sex in the fantasy suites," and that that's confusing and hypocritical to him. And that's exactly what Hannah has done.

    I'm now fully convinced that she got so angry at him and sent him home because she just feels guilty or doesnt want him around to point out her sin. She just wants a guy who will let her do whatever she wants without correction. Nothing Luke has said in this date is wrong, at all.
     
  8. I take that back. The only thing he did wrong or said wrong was when he took back what he said in the first place. The fact that she's getting this angry over a man telling her he wants her to respect God's law is absolutely insane. She said "I'm not tied to a man right now." But it's not about that. It's about the fact that you claim to be tied to GOD.

    I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that Hannah Brown is actually a Christian if she freaks out this much over someone telling her to examine the sin in her life. And she keeps saying the things he's saying "are soooo not okay." That's complete BS. They are 100% okay.
     
  9. It's also ridiculous that she's listing off all these things wrong with him and saying that she gave him another chance and blah blah blah. My response to that is, you didn't have to do that. If you don't want a man who has those flaws, then you are perfectly allowed to send him home and pick someone else. Just as he is perfectly allowed to leave if you're not the kind of person he wants to be with.

    This whole conversation is just insane, and I'm done watching this show. I'll pick it up again when someone else is the lead. It honestly makes me sick to watch her justify her behavior and get so mad at someone for simply pointing out that she has done something wrong. that's not an attractive quality at all. She calls him prideful, which is a laugh, because she is so full of pride throughout this whole conversation.

    Anyway, I'm done. Done with the show, done with this thread. You can say whatever you want and keep dismissing all of Hannah's behavior, but I'm tired of listening to it.
     
  10. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Unreal.

    You of all people should recognize that women can wrestle with sins of the flesh. You're here on NoFap, for God's sake. We don't know Hannah's heart. She's said that she believes sex is between a man and a woman. People are complex. They can recognize that premarital sex is wrong while also recognizing that sex feels physically amazing. I mean there's a reason people get addicted to it. I've only seen one interview where Hannah said something that could have been interpreted as taking advantage of grace. Please find me the comment where she says explicitly that she can do whatever she wants with impunity. She says, right in front of Luke, "sex might be a sin outside of marriage, but so is pride." She's not wrong. She said, "I have had sex, and Jesus still loves me." Not wrong there, either.

    You're giving Luke all this grace for "repenting of his sexual sin," but he hasn't repented once for being a manipulative, bald-faced liar. He says whatever he needs to say in order to stay on the show, which is why he backtracked like a MF the moment Hannah started to push back on him. And just like I predicted earlier, he comes back with a grand gesture to try and win Hannah back--because it's not about Hannah. It's about his narcissism and his inability to accept defeat. Luke is a Pharisee--obsessing about external evidences of faith while inside he's full of pride and arrogance. At least Hannah is honest about being conflicted.

    Funny you should mention that. Luke has spent an entire season expressing that Hannah is exactly what he wants in a wife. Then he draws a line in the sand and says he will remove himself from the relationship / that she's not who he thought she was / that her character is not what he wants in a wife if she's had sex with "one or multiple of these guys." Then, when she expresses frustration, he moves the goalposts--he says, "I can understand a slip-up ... but like, with all of them?" And then he moves it again ... after saying he would "be wanting to go home" if he found out she had sex, he says, "let's say you've had sex with all of these guys--all of them--I'd be willing to work through anything." Then, she puts him in the car and sends him away, and next week he comes back, with Chris Harrison telling her "he's got a ring." This is a guy who's all about winning ... not about Hannah. Defend him all you like, but I'm glad to finally see his behavior coming back to bite him.

    This paragraph from the recap on The Ringer summed it up perfectly for me:

    All season long, literally from the first date of the season, Luke repeatedly and incessantly told Hannah that he loved her, he was crazy about her, it was meant to be, he would fight for her through anything, this was destiny, etc. He was like a toy with a pull string that spewed out generic affirmations of love. But when it came down to it, he told Hannah that he would ditch her, no questions asked, if she didn’t follow his predetermined guidelines. Bruh, that ain’t love. And when she called his bluff, he retreated immediately. Soon he was explaining how he would still accept her in spite of everything; soon he was begging her for a chance to talk—while still characterizing her behavior as a mistake.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  11. No
     
  12. I dont watch these shows. I did see a short scene where some girl faked a British accent for her guy, i thibk the bachelor. I was curious to see how that worked out for her, but oh well
     
  13. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    I just think it's a fascinating (and often entertaining) study on relational dynamics. Plus, the way the show is set up, it really challenges contestants to wrestle with their insecurities. It tends to draw psychological issues to the surface.
     

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