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Webcam Addiction

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Deleted Account, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. THIS POST IS PRIMARILY ABOUT LIFTING THE VEIL ON THE WEBCAM BUSINESS: If this post is too long for you, at least read point 6 THE GAME to understand how you are being manipulated. Note if this is all not new to you, so be it, I've used webcams for 15 years and a lot of this was new to me, so I thought it might be helpful for others.

    Webcams is my weapon of choice for porn. In fact nothing much else in the porn world does it for me. Though before webcams videos and still pictures worked for me so I imagine if webcams didn't exist I'd get off on the other mediums but currently they provide no stimulation compared to webcams.

    Recently I "fell in love" with a Colombian webcam model. After 15 years of webcamming just one woman pushed my buttons more than any previous. Then add the fact she was working regular hours 7.30 am to 1.30 pm my time 6 days a week, making a potential crack like experience almost ever-present available.

    Rebooting and giving up this addiction was getting really hard. One time I had interaction with her that led me to want to understand more of this women's world and the business she was in. It was triggered by the feeling she was being coached in how to hook me.

    I thought I knew a fair amount about the webcam business but apparently, I didn't. So far I've read over 15 articles and threads, including extensive threads on Reddit from webcam girls and webcam studio owners which I spent hours reading. I won't post the links as there is a lot of trigger in there but will leave some high-level points. Most of the articles and threads are on the Colombian and Romanian webcam business (the leading hubs in order of size are Romania, Colombia, Ukraine)

    1. Around 30,000 people work on webcams in Colombia and several times more than that in Romania. Most of this studio work i.e. the women and men work for webcam studios. Global business is several billion now, maybe 3 or 4 billion dollars. Webcam traffic is about 5% of total Internet traffic. One popular webcam site is the 70th most visited site in America.

    2. People are driven to webcam work primarily by poor economic opportunity. Both Romania and Colombia have very high youth unemployment for women and pay for average work is very low $300 to $400 per month in both countries. Though there are many who report making $5,000 per month + and even higher, modest incomes of $1,000 + are common which are around 3 times average incomes.

    3. Is webcamming economic empowerment for women? The answer is almost certainly yes in countries where there is very little economic opportunity e.g. some people use it to go to school, feed their kids etc. That leads some people to say webcamming is a good thing which I think is simplistic because certainly there are harmful side-effects for people on both sides of the camera and if there were better economic opportunity a lot fewer people would want to do it. That been said, many of the women/men are very defensive and bullish about their jobs. Interestingly there is very little discussion of harm that be caused to customers. Only one Reddit thread addresses this when the webcammer said she had quit the business for a number of reasons, some being that it was creating porn and psychological addiction to the customers and financial harm.

    4. The flip question to the one above, is it exploitive? It's a complex question and there are vast variances e.g. the empowered lawyer in the US that does it on the side to the uneducated single Colombian mother that was probably sexualized as a child. Webcamming is mostly free choice but it's a juggernaut that sucks people in e.g. university girls in Romania are bombarded with flyers with seductive offers. Also there are a range of conditions in studios from the most corporate slick operations like Studio20 that have plush offices and immaculate rooms to flyby night operators. The corporatization provides better working conditions

    5. Primary customers are in America and Europe secondly. None of the 15 articles I mentioned ever mentioned female customers though I am sure they exist.

    6. THE GAME - from what I read it's not easy to be successful as a webcam person. It's not just about looking hot. The main profit is in getting regular customers and in order to get regular customers a model has to be able to develop an emotional connection with the customer. Many of the articles said that the vast majority of the chat is not explicit sex. Many of the women see themselves almost as therapists and psychologists. In order to be successful, they have to be skilled in creating an emotional bond with a customer.

    This is where it gets interesting. The studios provide extensive training to the webcammers on how to relate to customers, sexually and emotionally. Successful webcammers are masters at making a connection with you. They are skilled at getting you to form a long term relationship with them. As well as training the studios use "moderators" which are like directors that monitor several rooms at a time. They help the models identify the best target customers, they give the models advice on how to position themselves, how to respond to fetish requests, and here is the best part, they actually type for the model, this happens a lot in Colombia as some models don't know English, the model will pretend to be typing and the moderator is actually typing, even in private chats. I've always tried to avoid studio models and especially Colombia because of the likelihood of exploitive conditions but unfortunately, one model and her kinks pulled me in. Because I wasn't experienced with Colombian models I was blindsided. Early on she said "I think this connection is very important". I know you are laughing but I actually believed her. Now I am wondering whether it was the moderator. To illustrate how this is a "long con" game as one person described it, I was spending about $40 a month on this one model but as the connection built all of a sudden I spent $150 in one month. It took 2 or 3 months to get me to do that.

    I was probably conned in many ways "my lost my dad at a young age, maybe why I like older men" "I dated a 58 year old man "(I am 58 and it says in my profile or I told her).

    The studios by the models sex toys, outfits, some do their hair. I noticed some older pictures of the model I was into and she looked beautiful but plainer than now so very extensive makeovers are done to increase the illusion. I've seen this before with another model that looked ok and then was looking like and dong moves like the greatest seductress on earth. My point is that this is becoming a science that the corporate houses have figured out. Also note that models working from home could still be working for a studio and if they are not, they may be studio trained or they have access to vast information in webcammers support networks - i.e. the successful webcammers all learn the tricks.

    The bottom line is that the GAME is to create a long term emotional dependence that can only be maintained by spending regular amounts of dollars. There are bigger "long con" games too where models connect with customers outside the system which can end up with men buying a house for a model in Colombia. That's extreme of course but it happens and there are "the success stories" of marriage but no one knows if they last etc.

    6. COLOMBIA - a few extra points on Colombia. I learned a lot about the cultural differences including sexual behaviors, what's considered honesty, economic conditions. Just be aware you are dealing with people living in a completely different socio-economic and cultural context than you. As one poster said, a Colombian woman might lie to you, as she'll take that route to feed her baby over being honest with a gringo. He said don't judge it if you haven't been in that situation.

    7. CONCLUSIONS AND FINAL THOUGHTS - The webcam business is the fastest growing sector in porn and it's only getting bigger and more sophisticated in how it lures you in and keeps you in. It's targeting your deepest needs for emotional connection, validation and need for love. I believe it to illusory and fake and will never bring true happiness (opinion). If like me, you've ever created a strong bond with one model, think about it like building a castle on sand. It will crumble and the pain will be great.

    Webcams are a drug and we are the demand. (no big surprise)

    8. LINKS - I have an Evernote file of all the links from my research. You can message me to get them.

    9. BE NICE - this is a combination of me sharing some things I learned and opinion and judgment. If it doesn't resonate or you don't agree, please reply respectfully or move on. Please do your own research.
     
  2. Barry Rolfe

    Barry Rolfe Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for writing this out. Ive been struggling to break free from the cam trap for 7 years now. You did a wonderful job compiling all of this data.
     
    Jonny1992, bluemax4 and iamtheway like this.
  3. Yeah, I was addicted to camsites as well, and I definitely got "suckered" by the emotional aspect of it. Except I didn't really get suckered because I knew exactly what was going on: I knew I was being manipulated, and I knew that when I was talking to these girls, they were saying more or less what I wanted to hear.

    I think your post makes it seem slightly more cynical than it is, because I actually do think some of these girls cared and enjoyed talking to me. But you have to recognise that you're paying for their time, and they're not going to engage you outside of "work".

    I don't blame any of the camgirls for taking my money. I knew what was going on and I actively invested into it. I wanted the comfort and companionship, so I paid for it. No one ever forced me to talk to these girls; they were all very hands-off and never put any pressure on me to do anything.

    In some ways, I'd almost argue they helped me through some dark times. But by the same measure, I think it's pretty obvious that forming these virtual relationships instead of real, meaningful ones contributed to my mental state.

    You've got to be very careful. If you're emotionally vulnerable and craving attention, then the camgirls are going to get their claws into you easily -- not necessarily because they're evil, but purely because you'll be too weak to see the bigger picture.
     
    TGAguy, fallentoit, slug175 and 2 others like this.
  4. Thanks for your reply. I tried to present information without too much judgment.

    And yes models enjoy interactions and also develop emotional bonds with customers.

    Moral judgments are hard to make. For example, I read in countries where they used the Nordic model i.e. criminalizing men for prostitution, that prostitution went down but rape went up and sex tourism increased to poor countries.

    You could say the same with webcams, maybe men use webcams rather than prostitutes. Maybe if a husband didn't have a webcam outlet, he'd get divorced and leave the marriage and the kids will get hurt.

    I guess my main point is that it's highly addictive for some people and it's by design not by accident. I certainly don't blame the models, they are trained to create a seductive experience and maximize their earnings. Just as social media etc. has been designed by the best minds to keep you hooked and clicking.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  5. Completely agree with you. You're absolutely right, and I think it's particularly dangerous for people who are porn addicts, because they're more likely to be craving that kind of social interaction from beautiful women.
     
    iamtheway likes this.
  6. You are welcome. Not sure if helps us quit but maybe reveals some of the delusions.
     
  7. If we go there then why not expose spa manipulation practices? You go to get a massage and your therapist is NOT giving you a great relaxing experience - he/she is manipulating to make you comfortable and relaxed and get you attached, so you come back!!!!

    I can take your post and with minor changes apply it to pretty much every business. All businesses want their staff to make emotional connection with customers that is what makes good staff, and many offer training to do that.

    Every industry, every business, every product and every person is manipulating you and you decided to single out webcams and treat them as evil? You just have a bias
     
  8. Thanks for your reply and point taken. And yes I have bias and I did not say they were evil.

    Yes, the goal of all marketing is to get the long term "addicted customers" we could say. I work in marketing so I know. However certain businesses, in my judgment, have the potential to create more harmful side effects on their customers if the customers over consume and have an addictive quality to them.

    A fair comparison with the webcam business might be, gambling, alcohol, and vaping for example. What all these businesses have in common is
    1) people use them moderately without harm
    2) some people become addicted to them and experience harm.

    So to use your spa example, I am sure you could find someone addicted to spa treatments to the point that it's harmful e.g. they spend too much money and time on it with resulting consequences, however, you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere near the impact of say online sex addiction and gambling has. So no, not all businesses are the same.

    We could argue all day if it's the user or the supplier that is the problem but my post was to highlight some aspects of the business may be hidden to some users, for example, that a user may think he is talking to a model in a private chat but is actually talking to a man in a control room.

    Thanks again for your reply. I agree demonizing the business isn't helpful.
     
    fallentoit and SirErnest like this.
  9. This applies to allot more than addictive activities. What is often ignored is that pornography is simply a form of entertainment, and majority of people do not abuse it and do not suffer any negative consequences, in this sense it is no different from watching football every other night or going to spa for massage every other week.
    Very small percentage of the population abuses pornography and these people come together in groups like on this forum and see everyone around them talking about porn abuse and assume that entire world is full of pornography addicts and it s miracle that we still have social stability.

    That is not the case, porn is used by majority of the population but porn addicts are rare. And it is so common see people bunching up anyone who uses porn 99% of the population and those who abuse porn the remaining 1% of the population if not less and say - pornography abuse is a MASSIVE problem because apparently 100% of the population uses it. huh?

    People with addictions talk to other addicts or those involved in providing the "fix", they do not interact with normal healthy people and begin to think this is how things are.

    There is no question that anyone who came here and dealt with their addiction, runs from here as soon they see this irrational behavior and the rest stays here to be with people that understand them. I am not sure how long I will stay here myself

    Psychiatrists laugh at porn addiction claims exactly because those are so rare so they assume anything else but(and they are correct 99% of the time) and will need allot of convincing before they begin to take it seriously
     
  10. Personally, I find it much more addictive than porn. Glad to be rid of it now
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  11. Barry Rolfe

    Barry Rolfe Fapstronaut

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    This has been an interesting discussion. I agree with the general tenor of what is being said...At this point Ive spent years trying to kick this habit and even have a few girls that I specifically look out for...Early on there was one in particular that I really clicked w/. However Im in a real relationship w a real woman....One that I love very much.
    For me cams are less about relationships and more about a sense of power. I pay them and they do what I want. In my own life I rarely have any sense of control.
    Also there is a visceral thrill of the hunt that comes along w seeking someone new....reloading the page humdreds of times in an hour. Kind of like gamblers w slot machines.

    As stated before most people could look at this stuff and walk away. For whatever reason most of us on this thread cannot do so easily....I know because Ive tried. Many times.
     
    Deleted Account and bluemax4 like this.
  12. Barry Rolfe

    Barry Rolfe Fapstronaut

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    Bluemax4. Would you care to explain how you walked away from cams. Just seeing if there is any knowledge that I can glean from your experience.
     
  13. Thanks for your perspective. I do appreciate it. I am here to learn and explore what is real for me. My therapist doesn't really like the "just give it up" approach, though another counsellor friend I know, says yes, you have to go in recovery.

    Frankly, rebooting hasn't worked for me. It puts me in this good v evil kind of framework i.e. I love myself when I am off porn and I don't love myself when I am on it. My goal is to love myself all the time.

    Thanks again for your perspective.
     
  14. Good point sense of control. I think I like that a pretty woman gives me attention. There is no rejection as long as I pay. It's an illusion of course.

    I like what you said about the slot machines. I tried to make the point in my post that webcams, like social media and smartphones are designed to highly attractive.

    Webcams are 24/7. There is an unlimited choice so always one for you. The tipping system etc. is what is called gamification in software interface design.

    Like I said above, the money for sites is in the regular customers. I think saying only 1% are addicted is optimistic but whatever the percentage is, it's probably the 80/20 rule, 20% of the customers bring 80% of the revenue.
     
  15. I agree with you there, accepting yourself is incredibly important, but you also have to keep yourself accountable for what you do.
    There is distinction between judging a person and judging persons actions.
    Same is true for judging yourself and judging your actions.
    When we blur that distinction we feel depressed, because we can change what we do(our behavior) but we can not really change who we are.
     
    iamtheway likes this.
  16. bluesky71

    bluesky71 Fapstronaut

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    It is a heck of a rabbit hole. I was addicted to cam sites and started dating a model IRL. I don't have anything to do with the site or what she does anymore, but the temptation for me to go watch is still there--even after we have real sex. There is a performance aspect to it which isn't like real life. And that is the drug.
     
    yeahman and iamtheway like this.
  17. More of a habit than a drug.
    If you know someone who watches sports on TV often, try to get them to stop. They will not, and if they cant watch it at their couch for whatever reason, they will watch it in the bathroom or stopped on the side of the of the road. Do we call this drug, addiction or habit?
     
    iamtheway likes this.
  18. bluesky71

    bluesky71 Fapstronaut

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    IMO it is a bit of both....P is certainly more addictive than sports unless one is into gambling...then they are more similar.
     
  19. Barry Rolfe

    Barry Rolfe Fapstronaut

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    Ive learned things about cam addiction by reading up on those w/ gambling problems. Very similar in many regards.
     
    iamtheway likes this.
  20. I think you missed the point.
    Addictive is when you have strong impulse to do the activity and you find it difficult to resist.
    Habit is when you do the activity because you are used to it

    So with drugs or any abuse pattern actually goes something like this: occasional use -> habit -> addiction -> dependence
    This means when you are recovering reverse is true: dependence -> addiction -> habit -> occasional use

    So first you are dealing with dependence, because without porn you cant function
    Then you are dealing with addiction, because you have strong urges to use without physical need
    Further it becomes more of a habit, when you want the activity but urge is not very strong and is out of habit
    Finally you have occasional interest and that can be called healthy behavior.

    These are not different things they are varying degree of the same thing. So sports person simply has a habit but not an addiction.
    However Recovering porn addict may have habit level urge, meaning he no longer has strong compulsion rather - its fairly weak habit like desire.
     
    iamtheway likes this.

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