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Catholicism,Calvinism,Reformed Theology & Addiction Debate

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

Feel Good Cool Worship or Hymns and Hard Seats?

  1. Feel Good Cool Worship?

    25.0%
  2. Hymns and Hard Seats?

    50.0%
  3. I don't even care!

    25.0%
  1. So if we accept state control to any extent do we take a modernist approach or a medieval one? In some respects the democratic and logic driven representative governments undermines Christendom. Church approved divine leaders appointed by God in the form of monachries supports Christendom and the biblical ideal much more.

    Were the Jacobites more correct then the Anerican revolutionaries?

    Is the goal a just Catholic ruler to unite the church and her people or a government who derives it's just power from the people it serves?
     
  2. In its oldest form, the Apostles’ Creed goes back to at least 140 A.D. Many of the early church leaders summed up their beliefs as they had an opportunity to stand for their faith—see, for example, 1 Timothy 6:12. These statements developed into a more standard form to express one’s confession of faith at the time of baptism. It is not Scripture, but it is a simple list of the great doctrines of the faith.

    The word “catholic” means “relating to the church universal” and was the word used in the original version of the Creed. It does not mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the church, the body of Christ, as a universal fellowship. The phrase, “He descended into hell,” was not part of the creed in its earliest form.
    https://billygraham.org/answer/what-is-the-apostles-creed/
     
  3. What is the meaning/definition of the word Catholic?
    The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal") comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)
     
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  4. Yes, I understand the meaning of the word catholic in Greek. It describes the universal church which sums up all of the churches under the creed and, at that time, their shared orthodox belief which isn’t the case nowadays. The churches held universal beliefs in the divinity of Christ, the real presence in the Eucharist, sacraments, communion of saints, etc. This conformity in doctrine is what made the church universal. The benefit to orthodoxy is that the same church would be present in its beliefs whether you were in Rome or in China. That’s what they had and the purpose of the creed. That’s is NOT what we have today.
     
  5. As stated before the title of “Roman Catholic Church” is NOT an official title used by the Holy See. It is a title invented by non-Catholic Christians. What you call the RCC has always and still is known as The Catholic Church because it’s comprised of the church universal (Western and Eastern Rites). Unlike Protestantism which primal only focused on the West.
     
  6. Yea your right, but the RCC was in such need of reform can you blame the reformers?
     
  7. Do you think reformed are part of the church? are they going to heaven on the whole?
     
  8. The Catholic Church at the time of the reformation was in need of reform according to the practice of their doctrines. The reform didn’t do that though, rather it created new doctrines. That’s not reformation.
     
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  9. Individual Protestants are considered part of the church by virtue of their baptism (provided it was under the Trinitarian formula). The Protestant doctrines however are NOT considered part of the deposit of Faith.
     
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  10. So what if I'm good confessing democrat baby flushing catholic? Can I sill go to heaven?
     
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  11. Plenty pdbaby flushing protistants dont get me wrong
     
  12. That’s an oxymoron.
     
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  13. We aren't saved by works. ;)
     
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  14. I agree. thank you for your measured response
     
  15. Of course your right max
     
  16. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

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    @Max Fisher ..anarchy is not of God. There is an order in the kingdom and house of God, as demonstrable through the teachings of many parables -- many of which begin with pointing out that the parable is intentionally illustrating something about the kingdom. That being said, I don't agree that alternate forms of government are off the table. I personally think the American way was assisted through inspired founders, meaning that it's a good system, but for mortals. Heaven will have a government, yes? Lots of people will point to scripture about powers and principalities ordained by God, but I'm not at all confident that's the full answer because then those leaders are allowed to choose and will be accountable for their choices.

    A related thought is how Satan was cast out. What government does that imply? If the city of Zion will have no temple, but have walls and only allow certain people in, that all implies a heavy sense of order. Maybe even photo I.D. :p
     
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  17. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

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    p.s. Faith without works is dead. Saying we aren't saved by works is like saying we aren't saved by faith, but only by Jesus.
     
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  18. Anarchy is not the absence of order but rather the absence of authority. Specifically governing authority. We are subject to order and the principle authorities built into reality like physics and natural law etc. These are inescapable.

    I agree that it is unbiblical because appointed authority exists in the bible and is given legitimacy. First judges, then kings then the king of kings. I am curious though how we as Americans suddenly feel so confident abandoning the divine right of kings in favor of a post enlightenment, reason based system that allows God as the source of individual rights however only allows leaders to be selected through the consent of the governed. This to me is a huge twist that I'd like explained biblically.

    It seems like the "bible defends slavery" yet the "bible condemns slavery". Both sides use the bible as supporting evidence.

    Was the American revolution immoral to demand representative government? Or should they have just cried out to God for a just king?
     
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  19. There are a couple of things to address here and I wish I knew more regarding the official position according to Catholic Church and Papal encyclicals. What most Catholics believe today regarding government and how it should be run are actually modernist errors that have their origin in the French Revolution.

    I’ve been delving into this more and more but I must admit not to the degree where I can answer your questions completely. I can, however, recommend a book that does address these questions according orthodox Catholic beliefs: https://books.google.com/books/abou...ml?id=9o0ARgAACAAJ&source=kp_book_description

    I’ll have to hunt down my copy and give it a look over and come back to the thread. It’s been a while since I’ve read it. lol
     
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  20. When it comes to slavery we have to understand the nature of God and how He’s connected into every moment of every thing that happens either through His ordaining will or His permitting will. These are great questions Max with not so easy answers. Another great book I will recommend, and which your can read for free, is Heliotropium: https://books.google.com/books/abou...skC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button
     
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