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I'm not taking this as seriously any more. Need some help and advice?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by skaterdrew, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    I have fell in to using PMO moderately like once a fortnight or once a week. The problem is the negative effects I used to experience from PMO were a powerful driving force to make me 100% stop it. But now with not experiencing much or any negative effects occasionally using it I have found I am going back to it much easier.

    Need some help and advice please?
     
  2. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    The negative effects lag, as do the positive effects. I've been down the road you're describing. After a good period of abstinence, the negative effects will not be that strong at first. Then you'll get hooked and you'll just forget how good you were feeling when you were abstaining, and you'll keep spiraling down.

    The mind will always try to rationalize free pleasure and free pleasure is the one thing that destroys a person.
     
    Reborn16 and Nix_ like this.
  3. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    I think the blockers I use somewhat save me? I don't have a smart phone and have a good blocking system on my laptop that blocks the majority of things that trigger me. I have made these blocks near impossible to by pass and I keep a long 30 digit symbol password that would be near impossible to remember unless you studied it for a long time. I keep this password on a few devices on different files in another location a mile away from where I live. This password is the only way around the blocks. But occasionally I go get this password. I say occasionally, usually once a fortnight, sometimes once a week. It's been more once a week recently. So I am noticing I have gradually went to get this password more often recently. Then after I PMO once everything is blocked again for weeks usually. If it wasn't for the blockers I know I would be back to square one. But I somewhat feel like the blocking system I have is somewhat saving me?

    Remember I have went up to a month a good few times without PMO, and have had a lot of different streaks. I have been on this journey for about a year and a half. But now yeah it's at the point PMOing occasionally is making me feel very little if any negative effects. This worries me. Because like I said the negative effects were a strong motivator for me to never PMO.
     
  4. el10

    el10 Fapstronaut

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    I think blockers are very helpful, if you want to block it definetely, why you don't set a password that you don't know? However, if you are PMOing just once a week, I won't consider you an addict as long as you are not increasing the frequency.
     
  5. Negative effects come from abuse not from use.
    Abuse happens when whatever you are doing causes changes, that your body is unable to recover from completely before you do the activity again, so it is forced to adapt to altered state and constantly compensate for effects of activity.
    Human body keeps balance of mood, motivation and everything else by having multiple forces push against each other, as one force becomes stronger it is able to change the balance, however as that force becomes stronger, opposing force is supported and it begins to counteract those effects and brings the system in to balance.
    You can think of this balance as two people pushing each other, they seem to be standing still but they are actually exerting pressure against each other.
    If one pushes harder, the other will move back and will have to match the force applied to stop and in order to return to normal position, he would have to apply more force to push the original person back and then match the force applied.
    Similar things happen in the body, if dopamine rapidly rises it pushes on systems that counter its effects and although they begin to push back, this takes time and we have a chance to enjoy the benefits of elevated dopamine. As time goes on, effects of elevated dopamine are countered and now system overcompensates pushing dopamine levels the other way swinging out of balance now in the other direction - this brings the low that follows any high. And this is where that recovery time is important, if one allows the body to recover balanced normal state, after this swing, then mood returns to normal and all is well, but if recovery did not complete yet and person repeats the behavior - there is an inherent tendency to counter dopamine that is again reinforced, and when dopamine drops again, the low becomes lower and lower
    Abuse accumulates this counter pressure and drops in domain become large, to the point of severe depression, anxiety etc. Which actually movies the person to continue to seek this behavior.

    This is what reboots as they are called are expected to fix, by removing all dopamine boosting behavior, individual plunges in to a massive low and body now has massive excess it begins to correct, gradually it brings levels back in to normal range and mood and other functions that depend on these levels being to recover.

    Occasional use of masturbation and even pornography, does not cause these adverse effects and body is able to recover fully before the next session.

    Long term abuse seems to change how rapidly body responds(build counter pressure) the longer the abuse the stronger the response. Long sessions are especially damaging and need significantly more recovery.

    Keep in mind this is an example and not an explanation of actual underlying mechanisms, however it does illustrate core principles of how negative effects emerge
     
  6. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Well that's my point. Say for instance an alcoholic who drank say 3 bottles of vodka a week, but then that alcoholic managed to change their behaviour and started only drinking 4 cans of beer a week. If this alcoholic was able to sustain this in the lorn term then what would be the problem? There wouldn't be a problem right? The reality is addicts generally will go back to old behaviours though.

    But basically my behaviour of how I have been using PMO recently mimics the behaviour of the alcoholic who used to drink 3 bottles of vodka a week who now drinks 4 beers a week. I used to PMO on average about 30 times a week, which probably easily added up to over 24 hours a week of PMOing. But over maybe the last few months I have been PMOing once for a few hours once every two weeks, but more so recently every week. So what I am saying is my behaviour of PMO has come down to a much more moderate level. Basically the point I am making is generally addicts can't try use something they have been addicted to moderately because it never works and they always go back to old behaviours. But because of the blockers I use it has been working for me, and for the last few months it has remained moderate. But I openly admit without the blockers I think I would eventually end up as bad as ever again.

    But yeah if addicts could use certain things moderately there wouldn't be such an issue. Even on YBOP or people like Noah Church confirm after someone has rebooted if someone could use PMO moderately after that it wouldn't be so much an issue. But they don't recommend it because 99% of addicts who try this will fail and go back to old behaviour. But because the blocking system I have in place, PMOing moderately has somewhat been working for me recently.
    Thanks for the amazing answer. That explains it really well.

    But I don't want to go back in to the mindset thinking it is ok to occasionally PMO. I do actually still want to quit PMO altogether and reboot 100%. I know I still have some sexual difficulties sometimes, and no the pied is not 100% cured. Some days though it does feel like it is nearly there. I also still have some issues with my mental health. But it has improved a huge amount. But on the other hand I can't exactly put everything down to my PMO use. It's sort of like saying without PMO no way I could have any mental health problems. Mental health problems and other health problems existed before PMO. I feel like a lot of guys on this sub think PMO is the cause of all their problems in life

    But I guess I will never know how much my mental health and sexual functioning will be until I have rebooted 100%. It's such a wild roller coaster this journey. I go from not caring about PMO at all, to wanting it more than ever, and vice versa ext. Some days I have felt like I am completely over ever wanting PMO again and then boom I am hit with the an extreme urge.

    I think another issue is porn and artificial sexual stimulation can be super exciting and appealing to guys who don't have issues with it. Some guys on this come across like they think it's abnormal to be attracted to porn. They also act like after you reboot no way you could be attracted to using it again. I don't believe this is true. I believe porn could always have the potential to be appealing, even after you have 100% rebooted.
     
  7. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Another strange thing that has happened to me more and more recently is I actually don't have much interest in the porn when I go on it at first. But then I just keep watching it, searching and fapping anyway, and then eventually something triggers me and I like it more than ever all of a sudden again. So I suppose that is quite bad on my part, the fact I don't even really like it that much sometimes and continue to watch it until I do like it. But I don't know why I even want to search and watch it in the first place if I am not even excited or turned on at the thought of looking at it?
     
  8. I wrote on this before.

    We seek things when we need something.
    If you feel stressed you will have stress reducing behaviors, but not at some point in the future, no you will begin doing them that that very moment you get stressed.
    These are known as pacifying behaviors, you will touch you neck, legs, breathe more deeply, talk more to others.

    We do this because we learned that doing this has soothing effect. Some people learn that watching porn also has specific effect and when there is a need for this effect - body creates the crave.
    This craving is no different from one day just craving that salty food you sometimes eat, but somehow now you just really want it. First there is a need and the brain chooses what activity is simplest way to satisfy the need. If you reinforce same activity - then ends up at the top of the list.

    When you do anything dopamine related, you will be drawn in. The more dopamine you get the less willpower you have, eventually you get high enough that you are in trance and have minimal self control.
    Indulging is in essence eroding self control
     
  9. Zapster21

    Zapster21 Fapstronaut

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    Been in your situation. But believe me. The only reason you don't experience the negative effects is that you at least abstained for a bit. When you just continue you will damage your brain so much every day you continue.
     
  10. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for another great answer.

    Yeah these days I actually feel like I have much more control than I used to. Usually these days it is actually more of a want than an urge. Like getting an urge feeling out of control horny and then wanting to use PMO, I feel like that is more difficult to control. But these days I am just sitting sometimes like you say maybe feeling a bit low, bored, stressed ext, and I will just have this thought thinking I quite fancy PMO. Like sometimes I have used PMO simply because I have felt down or bored, and I have thought well what else am I going to do tonight.

    The thing is when I PMO my sessions do usually last quite long, as I edge for a few hours, masturbating flicking about loads of different content before I ejaculate.

    Another issue I am having recently is I just feel like something is really missing in my life, like there is a black hole and something is missing.

    I won't lie to you a lot of the time I think PMO is EXTREMELY pleasurable and enjoyable. I honestly would describe the pleasure I get from PMO when I am feeling the highest level of pleasure from it as complete blissful heaven. I find it so enjoyable and pleasurable it is unbelievable.

    When I used to PMO all the time ironically I didn't actually enjoy it that much but I just did it anyway. But see after going without it for a while and then using it again, I feel like that can make it so much more enjoyable when I use it again. But then on the other hand recently I somewhat have no real urge to use it either, but I just get thoughts sometimes thinking I quite fancy PMO. Like last night I was feeling really low and bored and I thought I really fancy PMO, what else am I going to do tonight? Sitting about feeling depressed? So last night I relapsed, and when I went on the porn at first it honestly hardly done anything for me, but I just continued to masturbate flicking about loads of different content anyway. I then I ended being heavily triggered by something and became extremely turned on and after that the PMO session turned in to that blissful heaven way. I edged masturbating flicking about loads of different content for 2 and a half hours before I ejaculated, and like I said it felt like blissful heaven.

    The concern is I actually don't know anything in life that I have felt that much pleasure from or have enjoyed anywhere near the amount I have enjoyed PMOing. It's that sort of way even though it's overall not as appealing to me a lot of the time now, I haven't forgot how good and enjoyable it can be. A lot of people have complained about wasting time because of PMO, how much time they waste. Where as I more think what would I rather be doing? I enjoyed and loved spending hours PMOing. If it wasn't harmful mentally and for sexual functioning I would continue to do it. But I know it is a disaster for mental health and sexual functioning, and that is why I do want to stop it completely.
     
  11. If the alcoholic who used to drink heavily and now has 4 beers a week can go without those beers for 90 days, then I would be more likely to say those beers are OK.

    So, can you go 90 days with absolutely no P? If not, you are a functional addict, but not a recovering one.
     
    Reborn16 likes this.
  12. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Well I mean I have been on this journey for about a year and a half. I have had a lot of streaks and relapses.

    The thing is the brain is changing constantly on this journey. Some guys think you undo all your progress with one relapse. But one relapse can't undo all the progress and brain changes from all the times you have abstained. But like you say the more you keep using PMO again the more you're gradually undoing your progress.
     
  13. You described core component of developing porn abuse problems - withholding orgasm and trying to make the session last longer.
    It may seem like you have developed control, but in reality this is abuse of your sexual response. Having sexual tension is pleasurable and healthy response is to have sex or find other means to satisfy the desire.
    People with porn addictions do not exhibit this behavior, they bypass self regulation mechanism - orgasm and stay in the arousal state for extended periods of time.
    This develops when orgasm does not seems as enjoyable, and person begins to gradually spend more time in arousal state before reaching orgasm, slowly learning that this could be very pleasurable.
    Pornography in this case is used as stimulant to make it easier to maintain high level of arousal and pleasure, and overtime this forms a habit.
    This is a big problem because, person does not see masturbation as way to satisfy a need - instead, ejaculation seems like a waste and something to avoid because ejaculation is going to end the pleasure.

    Long sessions are damaging and one should relearn to seek and enjoy orgasm instead of staying in aroused state for hours, that would pretty much fix porn addiction for most as refractory period returns willpower and rational control.
     
  14. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Can I just add when ever I masturbate without porn or porn substitutes, so just masturbating using my imagination to more realistic fantasy, I ejaculate in minutes when I do this. I only seem to stop my self from ejaculating for a while when I am masturbating to porn?
     
  15. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    There's another few things I want to add. When I used to use PMO all the time I didn't actually withhold the orgasm like this, I ejaculated much quicker. But since I only use PMO over average between 2-4 times a month I do seem to do this much more?
     
  16. Reborn16

    Reborn16 Fapstronaut

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    Do you want to survive or live?

    Are there any short term goals being held back right now? Are you putting off any priorities?

    Once a week or once a fortnight can still be enough to numb the senses and take away your energy from what you really want to change in your life.

    I urge you to ask yourself, what else do I want to change?

    And is PMO really any use to you in getting these changes? Or is it actually a hinderance in getting to them?
     

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