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Why men should ignore 90% of redpill/MGTOW/MRA advice

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Old Fogey, May 25, 2019.

  1. Old Fogey

    Old Fogey Fapstronaut

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    This seems to be a popular topic on the Internet these days. I guess because we live in an age of nobody taking personal responsibility for their lives and finding it easier to blame women, minorities, government, "the left" or whomever instead. Just out of interest I've done some reading on these subjects, and while there is some truth to what they say, most of it is total bullshit.

    TRP/MGTOW/MRA seem to be separate ideologies, but they have a lot in common. Namely that the world is going to hell in a hand basket and it's all the fault of women. Therefore you should either become an incel or simply treat women as disposable fleshlights and avoid any kind of serious interaction or commitment.

    Yes, third-wave feminism is insane. Yes, divorce laws suck. Yes, women seek out higher status men (the same way men seek out more attractive women). Yes, there are some women who are feminazis and hate men (the same way MGTOWs and the like hate women). But you know something? Most women don't hate men, most will not divorce their husband of 10 years as soon as a guy driving a Porsche or Maserati smiles at them, and no, there is not some evil leftist conspiracy to turn you into a mangina (really, there isn't. You're not that special, or that much of a threat).

    Consider this: Anyone who has ever read any of the forums these guys frequent will notice that the one thing they all want (and talk about more than anything else) is... women. But not just any woman. These guys want a woman with the following characteristics:
    • Early to mid 20s (with 30 being the absolute cut off)
    • Skinny
    • Beautiful
    • Submissive and will let the man have 100% leadership
    • Not career focused and happy to be a stay at home mother, cleaning, cooking etc
    • Has only been with 1-3 other men at most (preferably a virgin)
    Now there's nothing wrong with wanting these characteristics, and indeed a lot of guys would jump at the chance to be with such a woman. But here is what you need to bring to the table:
    • Within 10 years of her age, the closer the better.
    • Fit and healthy. If she's beautiful, it's only fair that you're good looking too.
    • A take charge kind of guy. This does not mean bossing her around, this means taking RESPONSIBILITY for everything in the relationship, including things that go wrong.
    • A high salary (she isn't working, so you better earn enough to support her and any children in a good lifestyle)
    • Not a total man whore. No woman like that will waste her time with a guy who's trolling Tinder or college bars when he's 45.
    In other words, if you want to date a woman in the top 1-3%, you need to be in the top 1-3% of men. A man who's physically fit with a high salary and takes responsibility for his life instead of whining about it on the Internet like an SJW. I know a lot of the guys on nofap are trying to achieve that, and that's good.

    The mistake some of you guys make is assuming that the guys who advocate MGTOW/TRP/MRA are just like you. Most of these guys are older men (40-50 or older) who are overweight, balding, barely employed losers who are upset that 18 year old models aren't beating a path to their door after seeing their Tinder/POF/OK Cupid profiles. If you don't believe me, go and watch their videos on youtube, taking note of the fact that many of them refuse to show their face and yet have enough idle hours everyday to make TONS of youtube videos.

    Now again, there are something TRP guys talk about that ring true. Women are looking for good looking guys with decent careers and refuse to date a guy beneath them. But that does not make women your enemy. Women want and need you, even if some don't know it yet. Sure, some have been brainwashed by feminists, but some of you guys are allowing yourselves to be brainwashed by MGTOW/MRA guys in EXACTLY the same way.

    If you want to win at the dating game, here's how to do it:
    • Max out your looks. Eat well, get a decent amount of rest, exercise daily, take care of your appearance (including skin and nails).
    • Get off the Internet. Get off the loser dominated forums, get off the dating apps full of fake profiles and losers desperate for validation.
    • Be more social. Put your phone away and talk to the chick next to you. Get some hobbies and interests, do them with other people.
    • Know what you're looking for and your standards, but don't be a dick about it. Make sure that you can meet any standards you set (that is, after all the definition of "standard")
    • Don't be a beta bitch boy either. Walk away from anyone who isn't worth your time. Here's a clue - pussy isn't magical or special. Don't put it on a pedestal.
    • Treat women with respect and don't burn your bridges. If you meet a woman who wants more from you than you're willing to give, let her down easy. Let her be a friend. After all, she might have other friends you can date. After dating around, you might realise she was the one after all.
    • Be a little flexible (within reason). People are not mathematical equations, and people do change over time.
    If you do this, you will at the very least make friends, you might have some hookups as well, and you might even find someone to share a long term relationship with. No need to manipulate women. No need to swear off them and become a hermit either.

    Of course, there are no guarantees... well, there is one. I can guarantee that if you spend your life whining about women and minorities on Internet forums, you'll end up as miserable as those MGTOW fucks who claim they don't need women yet spend all day every day complaining about them.
     
  2. Old Fogey

    Old Fogey Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your well-thought out and informative critique.
     
  3. elevate

    elevate Fapstronaut

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    *clap clap clap*

    These people get their feelings hurt by a few women and they start generalizing the whole gender.

    They become bitter and full of hate so that they rationalize their way out of ever taking a risk ever again.

    Have fun protecting and isolating yourself from the evil scary females.
     
  4. aston20

    aston20 Fapstronaut

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    I think MGTOW is not that bad, they encourage you to do something for your life and not chasing women all the time.
     
  5. Origin32

    Origin32 Fapstronaut

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    I've never bought into MGTOW, and have always found it quite embarrassing, because outside of the divorced men who adhere those particular norms, I feel like the other half of men never had a choice in "going their own way". They were simply forced out of the dating market, for whatever reason, and never had a choice. "Going your own way", in my opinion, seems like some sort of defense mechanism to cope with losing out.

    Now, in regards to red-pill, that is a real phenomenon, and anyone who has had experience with women know that the stereotypes are true. Sure, there are a small minority of women that are probably marriage material, but there is a reason that marriages for poor people only have a 48% success rate. Rich people have around an 84% success rate - that is how they continue to stay wealthy.

    I think most of your post is just generalizations, and I am not going to critique every point you made, because I don't feel like engendering bad blood over contemporary socio-political issues. I will say this though, is that there has been a great deal of social engineering that has taken place over the decades that has absolutely decimated men. The government and multi-nationals have colluded with one another to take well paying manufacturing jobs overseas, leaving men in a rough place in regards to well paying employment.

    Corporations actively recruit women to fill their positions. I know this, because I have worked two corporate jobs, and the bias against men was blatant. Most of the leadership roles in my first corporate job were occupied by women, and I can recall like yesterday our A/C coming into a team meeting, and asking the men if they felt like there was a bias, since most of upper management consisted of women.

    I have two friends that noticed these trends at their jobs as well. One of them works at Wells Fargo, in finance, and told me all of his cohorts are mostly women and H-1B holders. My other buddy has a HR job with a huge corporation in the state I live in. One of his responsibilities is to run demographic data, and always tells me how mind blown he is that the company employs nothing but women for the most part - at his particular location up to 80%.

    I personally got so tired of hearing about toxic masculinity and diversity quotas at my last job that I ended up quitting, and have been happily unemployed ever since. I just couldn't take it anymore psychologically with the heavily politicized work environments. These places are literally brainwashing people, and those types of discussions really shouldn't be held in such high volume like they are.

    Women in America are now earning more money annually than their male counterparts, making them non-eligible to date, marry and have families. The symptoms of this have been ever increasing suicide rates for men, as well as augmenting levels of alcohol and substance abuse.

    The socio-economic impacts of this are not sustainable, and are already in the beginning phases of coming to an end. Reports just issued not too long ago revealed that up to 30% men, in the 18-30 age range, had no sex for the whole year of 2018. The study also showed women are still having plenty of sex. How are most women still having sex with such great numbers of men being eschewed from the dating market? Well, that's simple. Most women are constantly focused on dating up, and have no problem sharing the top men. Also, technology has made access to these men much easier. With such small groups of people sleeping around in circles we are seeing more outbreaks of STD's.

    A couple of examples:

    Herpes is at a ten year high in Rhode Island: https://www.wpri.com/community/heal...s-hit-10-year-high-in-rhode-island/1044324337

    Herpes outbreak at Coachella: https://www.dailywire.com/news/46497/report-coachella-attendees-suffer-massive-herpes-emily-zanotti

    Who do you think is going to Coachella? All the genetically endowed of course. I can even give my own anecdotal accounts of this. A couple of girls who hang out with a group of my guy friends switch off sleeping with each guy, and when we were all out one night the guys were warning each other to stop sleeping with those girls, because they were spreading herpes.

    I also want to make very clear, that the 30% of men who didn't have access to the dating market were most likely average looking guys, it's just the standards are so high now that they can't compete in this Darwinian dating environment. I could write on forever about this, but I really wanted to point out that you are choosing to look at dating through rose colored glasses, which is fine, but your position is inaccurate.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  6. White knighting? Even just a little?
     
  7. I agree with you assessment of the corporate world because I've experienced this first hand. When I was in B2B sales I dealt with men primarily but many industries are totally dominated by women, not to mention that almost every HR person I've dealt with was a women.

    MGTOW makes all the sense in the world to me. I agree that there are is a lot of butthurt and toxcicity in those comment sections from men who cant get with women but marriage in western society is almost always a bad move for a man. I'm open to hearing a good counter argument against the fact that marriage does anything more than put a man at risk but so far that hasnt happend. This is coming from someone who is Christian and believes that in a perfect world, marriage with a good wife and children would be the absolute most beneficial situation for a man to mature and grow in spirituality.

    When you look at the numbers, how can anyone not admit that this system has devolved into cash and prizes for the woman and the state. All the obsession with "equality" clearly excludes men and the divorce and family courts are literally run by feminist in most western nations and most US states. MGTOW is some of the best advice available for men and I feel for any man who is foolish enough to totally discount the points that they make.
     
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  8. I got approached by such a woman. :D

    I don't have any of this and I'm 20 years older. Seemingly I'm liked for my personality. This personality is a result of going my own way. It was study and learning (languages, musical instruments, culture, philosophy, politics, religion) in hermitage, leading to the final answer: Jesus Christ.

    The winning move is not to play.

    I'm the living proof.
     
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  9. Innervision

    Innervision Fapstronaut

    Thanks, @Old Fogey, for your time to put in words much of what had to be said about this topic. I agree with almost everything you said, even when technically I could be considered a incel. Sometimes it gets very frustrating to not receive the amount of attention from women as we would like, but your words reminds me to not be trapped on acting by simply transferring my personal responsibility to others (women, in this case) about improvements in my own life.

    You totally nailed it! That's the same principle that you can see on homophobic people that cannot stop talking and thinking about... gay people.

    For me, the most challenging part about this slow process of improvement is the patience to wait for the results. Since we live on a social environment that is sexually overcharged, the triggers and urges about that can build an overwhelming force against our best goals and intentions.
     
    recon117 likes this.
  10. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    TRP and MGTOW men are bunch of copers. TRP is notorious for the belief that for men looks don't matter much "just learn the game bro". Having bad looks can seriously shrink your dating pool, I am not totally blackpilled and I don't think that if you are not a chad or at least average then it's over, but it is significantly harder and you will meet a lot more rejections. I think that there is more wife material than TRP thinks, but in US it may be really hard, but still not impossible. I suspect many MGTOWS or RPs married without caring about their wives values and it ended bad way, people in western societies today aren't encouraged to care about their partners morality.

    Those ideologies are toxic because they mix uncomfortable truths with lies and copes.
     
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  11. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    The 30% of men is really acary and AFAIK it tripled in last 10 years, this is loneliness epidemic at this point.
     
  12. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    One of the truest things I've ever read on the internet. You are obviously a high quality man, and there should be more like you.
     
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  13. But then Christianity and NoFap are just "cope" as well. ;)

    I'm not ugly, but I do not fulfill the typical cliché of "manliness". I'm really slim, rather short (5'9"), not body-built and my worldly achievements are nil. So my dating pool is really thin as well.

    Though my personality changed a lot during my recovery, while my looks didn't change at all. And I know, that I was completely invisible beforehand. Women were literally looking behind me, as if I didn't exist. That changed drastically.

    I was lucky to find out about it before marriage. Because I would have married young and the wrong mate, given the option. Thankfully the Lord intervened and set me on the right path.
     
  14. You totally summarized what i was thinking!
     
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  15. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    They are not. Nofap is actually helpful, so this is not a cope, christianity can be a cope when you are a christian to feel better, not to worship God. Copes make you feel better by either bullshiting (ah, all those women are unworthy thots anyway, I am not losing anything) or being toxic practices (fapping because you feel lonely). No, not all things that we do to feel better or that make us feel better in addition to other benefits are copes, only those that are keeping us in illusion or the harmful ones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  16. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    Looks aren't everything, people are amazing creatures able to do everything, for example screwing those little chances they have. If you have problem with looks it easy to blame everything on it and ignore your negativity, neediness, desperation, terrible personality or whatever other thing that sabotages your efforts. This is very common among incels, it is easier for many to play victim than to face your own weaknesses and shortcomings.
     
  17. RP, MGHOW, Christ and NoPMO all defined, who I am today. Each one was an important step necessary to reach the next one. Without dropping out of society facing inconvenient truths, I would have never found THE truth (Christ), simple as that. And without knowing about sin, I would have never stopped MOing to P, and continued to sabotage myself.
     
    Freedom_from_PMO likes this.
  18. lolos

    lolos Fapstronaut

    Fuck mgtow and mra, they are pretty much incels, but Trp is the shit. At it's core it is about becoming the best man you can be in every aspect of life and getting the most out of life for yourself. That's all it is. It's not about manipulating women, or becoming a 'chad'. There is definitely a side of it that is more focused on women, but I think that's a lot of the newer guys. If you read the stuff on there for a while, you will realise they don't hate women, in fact they love women. Read heathcliff's post 'sad eyes' for an example. It is essentialy this forum on steroids. It is more directed and organised. You can read life advice from extremely succesful men, and ask personalised questions on your own situation.

    I think you may be slightly misunderstanding some of the key concepts rp fogey. Read the ec's posts, especially the sec's, I can guarantee you these guys aren't as you described them. Read they're stuff and observe your life carefully. Apply they're advice and you will see it is true, or at least very close to the truth. These guys know this shit because they have learned it from getting rejected, from being an awkward cunt, from trying new techniques, from carefully observing behaviour, it's not plucked out of thin air.

    godspeed
     
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  19. *Thank you for say this.

    **Add to that, if I may,.. the feminization of industrial complex..

    ...Declining blue collar jobs, engineering, mechanic, construction jobs... and a massive increase in servitudinal posts, cooking, cleaning; admin, waiter, waitress, pffffff.

    Any engineering is done on a computer; it's not kinesthetic like it always has been since we began as a species.

    Digital engineering of any kind is just a convenient analogy to reference the real thing. (I appreciate software has given architects a wild range in the freedom to design complex buildings; so nerds pls don't be triggered.)

    It's one thing to do any next job to make an honest living but it's an overt political motive to distort and disconnect man from his 'earth' nature an then to gaslight by denigrating and denying the maturation and power of his masculinity when he conforms to new societal rules. peace

    #Mic Drop.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2019
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