PA/SA

I really don't identify with your views on sex. I don't think a sexual act can be inherently demeaning. In my opinion it is the intent of the participants who control this. Oral sex could very easy be given and received in a loving way.

 

When I said it seemed demeaning, it was in the context of viewing it in porn. I never believed this act was portrayed out of love during the videos.
I do not subscribe to the idea that all sexual acts can be loving. There are many agressive, self-serving, or even torturous acts depicted in porn that certainly demean another human being.

What you and your partner do in your bedroom is none of my business. We don't have to agree on our opinions.

 

I see it this way:

An intent to be sexual in an intimate way with mutual consent is a sexual act. It doesn't matter what the actual act is.
An intent to be aggressive or violent or dominant or controlling, even if it is in a sexual manner is not a sexual, intimate act. It is a violent or aggressive act.

Karma (or Kama in Pali) is often translated as "action" in Buddhism. But the Buddha suggested a better meaning was "intention". For example, I could give someone criticism with the intention of being helpful or of being hurtful. I could use the same words but it is my intention that defines whether or not I have accumulated merit.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

In my case, I had only been exposed to oral sex through seeing it in porn. It always disgusted me, and seemed demeaning. And then there was one day that my wife gave me oral sex, and I climaxed in her mouth. She enjoyed it, and did it out of love, but I was so torn up and felt so guilty, because I had only seen it in a negative context. Now I feel guilty for reacting badly to a gift that she meant to give me freely out of love. Porn messes you up bad!

Porn can be so ugly. I agree with what you say, but I also think that the aggressive or dominating things can be a perversion of a good thing. It is actually a delightful dance in nature for the strong male to pursue a feisty taunting female, and the fun of this is built into our biology. Even if in modern society, men and women are equal, our sexual instincts were forged in much more ancient times, and so playing at those things can be very enjoyable, and need not be demeaning.

 

One great answer:
“What is sex positive?”

 

I may not be adding any new insight to the conversation, but I found this thread to be quite interesting so I figured I would throw my 2 cents in.

I think Kenzi hit the nail on the head with this statement:

If I were to label the spectrum, I would call it "Sex Addiction" and simply put PA on the one side and Patrick Carnes' (Out of the Shadow) level 3 actions (illegal activities such as rape/molestation/etc.) on the other side. I don't think there's a line to be drawn that separates SA and PA. I think everything is simply a different manifestation of SA, with porn being one of them. Can one remain a PA and never do anything illegal or act out? Absolutely, but that doesn't make PA any less of an addiction. I do believe, however, that escalation must be present for any activity to be labeled an addiction, and that speaks to the underlying compulsion. I don't think everyone who views porn is an addict or will become an addict, and I think that fact is what has contributed to the flawed conclusions researchers and journalists have reached that PA isn't a thing. Just because there are people that can have a "healthy" relationship with porn doesn't mean there are others that don't suffer from porn addiction.

As for me, I was firmly in the PA camp for almost 2 decades until I started my own version of "acting out". My actions moved my needle further across the spectrum away from just PA. I crossed lines I wish I never had, and as a result my PA escalated as well. Why this happened to me and not others I don't know. Addiction is too complicated an issue, but there are definite patterns that can be identified in all addictions. This is why recovery looks very similar across the board. I can probably go to a gambler's anonymous meeting and find it beneficial even though I've never had an issue with gambling. It's the compulsion and how it makes our lives unmanageable that characterizes addiction. That unmanageability can happen slowly over decades and suddenly escalate as in my example, or it can be rapid as is the case for teenage PAs.

I think the prevalence and accessibility of porn is what justifies it having a separate categorization, but it's still just another manifestation of SA. There are SAs who act out as exhibitionists, which is firmly on the spectrum of sex addiction, but we don't have a term (to my knowledge) called exhibitionist addiction because it's not nearly as prolific as those who are addicted to porn.