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Prayers For Las Vegas Nevada

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by CaptinCaveMan, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Poseidon

    Poseidon Fapstronaut

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    Pfft, literally everyone around here has a gun. I’d feel lot safer where nobody had them.
     
  2. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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    I actually don’t see what you are doing as engaging at all. Your style of debate is very haphazard. You nitpick and twist what is presented to validate your own position. You are disrespectful in your tone. You appear to want to browbeat others into giving up, because you’ve muddied the waters to cause frustration.
     
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  3. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    American gun culture. I lived in Alaska for around 2 years, and to be frank, it's the Texas of the north. To be fair, the gun culture there's primarily for hunting more than anything as it's big there. Despite that, it was peaceful there; I haven't heard of much crime. Switzerland's quite safe also, though theirs is more so since soldiers need to take their weapons home.

    Same can be said here, where despite gun limitations, we're still safe too. However, I can't say the same for other countries that limit guns, like one of the most violent countries, Honduras.

    Gun control works here because we're more apt at targetting the potential causes that could lead to gun violence, and we don't really have much gang/cartel violence like the US/Latin America has. I think those factors are more important to consider than guns themselves, although it's quite possible that easier-to-access guns could create such a culture here.
     
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  4. Poseidon

    Poseidon Fapstronaut

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    Nobody could have guessed that this guy who shot up the Las Vegas concert would have been a risk. He didn’t fit the profile of your typical mass murderer.
     
  5. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    You're not going to know everyone who will be a potential hazard.
     
  6. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Say what you will about the WMD claim (which all 17 branches of our national security council agreed with) ... the fact is that 50 million Iraqis were liberated by the ouster of Saddam. The vast majority of his own people celebrated his execution.

    From Wikipedia: "Shi'as in Iraq (which make up 60% of the nation) celebrated the execution while Sunni towns (40%) saw protests. In Sadr City, Basra, and Najaf, citizens danced in the streets and honked their car horns with jubilance."

    How is it "imposing" to refuse to acknowledge Hamas? You were making it sound like America was invading with our own troops and setting up a government of our own choosing. And now by "imposing", you simply mean we disagreed with it? Please don't be surprised when I dismiss this argument.

    Imagine if a father said to his daughter, "I know you love him, but I don't think he's the right man for you to marry." And imagine if she replied, "stop imposing on my sovereign right to choose who I marry." It'd be a bit of an overreaction, don't you think?
     
  7. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    I'm glad we agree that gun control laws are pretty worthless.
     
  8. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    When you insist that people like me are the problem with American society, then you shouldn't be surprised when my tone is disrespectful. You're hiding behind this facade that you're just interested in sincere dialogue, but you basically came out of the gate and declared that every gun-owning American is part of the problem. So please spare me.
     
  9. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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    You are obviously incapable of any self reflection. I have sincerely dialoged with you. You just don’t want to play by the rules. The fact that you think domestic violence in Australia and Hamas in the West Bank are even part of where this conversation is, shows that you just cannot focus on the issue and accept the flaws in your position. You are part of the problem, superfan, and it’s not disrespect to say so. You keep demonstrating just how entrenched in your own thinking you are, that nothing needs to change, that the loss of life is an acceptable trade off. You assertions that most Americans agree with you I sincerely hope are wrong.
     
  10. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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    The UN Security Council was given false intelligence, by design. Yes, the Iraqis were liberated, but it suited US interests, too.

    Re Hamas, it’s not about WHO was elected, but that the democratic will of the people was disregarded. Oh, yes, we stand for democracy, except if you elect who we don’t like..

    This are all tangential issues. In your world, you have an answer or distraction for everything. I wonder what the next one will be.
     
  11. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    Honestly, y'all. You've been at this for like 5 hours straight. I have only been involved in a minimal way, and I am emotionally exhausted.

    Maybe tomorrow I'll go back and find the point where the statement above began to apply to this conversation. Tonight, I am too tired.
     
  12. noonoon

    noonoon Fapstronaut

    Amen!
     
  13. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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    You’re so right. That’s all that needed saying. I apologize to all for adding needlessly to what was a perfect sentiment.
     
    wwart1020 and noonoon like this.
  14. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    No, people who think guns are the problem are the problem. You disarm a citizenry, and all you do is take away the single most effective tool that the weak and vulnerable have to defend themselves.

    @wwart1020, since you were interested, here's the Kleck/Gertz study. It's pretty long, fair warning.

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91da/afbf92d021f06426764e800a4e639a1c1116.pdf

    Here's a key passage:
    "Since as many as 400,000 people a year use guns in situations where the defenders claim that they "almost certainly" saved a life by doing so, this result cannot be dismissed as trivial. If even one-tenth of these people are accurate in their stated perceptions, the number of lives saved by victim use of guns would still exceed the total number of lives taken with guns. It is not possible to know how many lives are actually saved this way, for the simple reason that no one can be certain how crime incidents would have turned out had the participants acted differently than they actually did. But surely this is too serious a matter to simply assume that practically everyone who says he believes he saved a life by using a gun was wrong."
    It won't surprise you to know that gun control advocates love trying to tear this study apart. But the fact is that the most celebrated (and most anti-gun) criminologist in the 20th century couldn't find fault with it. It says a lot when the single person most qualified to tear it apart, with the biggest temptation toward bias, concluded that:
    "the methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it."
     
  15. Poseidon

    Poseidon Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, pointless bickering gets old after a while doesn’t it? I say it’s pointless because people lock on to their point of view and won’t budge, especially on the issue of gun control. Nothing anyone can say will make a gun supporter change their mind, unless of course someone they love is killed by gun violence. Then they suddenly develop some empathy and change their tune.
     
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  16. ConstraintsTheory

    ConstraintsTheory Fapstronaut

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    Here is the thing everyone is pro gun however the problem where people have disagreements with is who has access to them. Time and Time again government has shown us how wildly inefficient and inept it is especially at dealing with a crisis and yet there are those that believe that by only allowing the government to have guns is a brilliant solution to me that just sounds idiotic. explain to me how disarming citizens will make you safer? why are certain people willing to revoke the rights of others because they willingly choose not to exercise the very rights they want to remove? (if I don't wanna do it then you cant do it)

    i got a story for you all it should be apparent that I am Pro Second Amendment a few years back I took a group five of my anti-gun friends to go shooting with me my family owns some land out in the country and we have a personal shooting range. anyway, all of my friends that I took none of them have ever fired a gun before in their life. they were all nervous about it and some were hesitant but I told them "if you're going to be anti-gun that's fine but at least you can say you've shot one before" so I took my Mini-14, browning BLR, Ruger single action revolver and my M9 Beretta. so we get to the range and I go over gun safety the dos and don'ts and we spent that entire day shooting away and to their amazement they had way more fun than they thought they would. Of the five that shot that day 3 ended up later on getting their CCL. the other two while they never got their CCL they did purchase a firearm for home defense.

    I tell this story because I have found that most people that are anti-gun have never shot one before. once they do they have a much deeper appreciation for gun rights regardless if they own a firearm or not. these people that own guns are not criminals they are your lawyers, and doctors, school teachers, business people. owning firearms isn't exclusive to "them redneck white folk" I am willing to bet that you have talked and or engaged with someone who you did not even know was armed(if you live in America that is). you probably shook their hand and had a conversation.

    the problem isn't that people have guns the problem lies at the center of lack of education on the matter. people just don't understand or simply don't care. they prefer to go off emotion because it's easier even though there is evidence to counter their beliefs and far to lazy to do any research on their own to find the truth out for themselves. so when something like what happened in las vegas happens instantly it comes down to ban guns, all gun owner are evil, the NRA is a terrorist organization blah blah blah... however, the people rarely hear about how it has saved lives in other instances. at the end of the day we are all just a bunch of hairless monkeys and just like monkeys we kill each other that's just a sad reality we live in people kill people for whatever reason sometimes they don't even need a reason. if you trust everyone else around you as well as the government with your life and the lives of your friends and family then turn your weapons in. I'm sorry but I don't trust anyone with my life other than myself. so as long as people are still killing other people ill be keeping my firearms that also includes my semi-automatic ones too.

    si vise pacem para bellum
     
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  17. Poseidon

    Poseidon Fapstronaut

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    I’ve shot plenty of guns but I’m still against them. Go figure.
     
  18. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for the link @SuperFan, will take a look when I have time.

    Oh boy, this is a whole 'nother stereotype in our society that has bugged me for ages, but I don't want to go into it here because it is too far off topic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017

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