1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. At least I can see my parents, I think god is a fictional character, yet as a fictional character I find him repulsive and quite evil.

    If you can point to me at a story in the bible from which god solved a problem without the use of suffering, or death or blood I'd be impressed, yet all of it is full of it and its main reason why the middle east is so violent. The source of their faith is based on death, blood and suffering.
     
  2. Well, it seems to me he gives you a choice. Obey me blindly, or don't and go to hell for all eternity and burn. I mean, I don't want that, but I can't do anything about it. It's not like I'm God or something. My hands are tied.
     
  3.  
  4. I don't see how you come to that conclusion. I am not a slave either, nor does God want me to be His slave, or He wouldn't have given me the free will to be able to defy Him. I don't see what your logic is in saying that Good and Evil are irrelevant, and all He cares about is obedience. Some common sins include raping, murdering, stealing, lying, etc... how are those not "evil things"?
     
    Roady likes this.
  5. That's completely your own opinion, and it's false. I am absolutely not blind in my beliefs. I think I've proven that here in this thread. Nobody should believe something blindly. And likewise, nobody should reject a belief blindly either.

    Thank God for that free will you have, huh? It's great stuff.

    There's that word "blind" again. God doesn't want anyone to be blind in their beliefs. If that's what He wanted, why would He have given us the Bible to study His word and come to know Him, personally? He wouldn't have. There's no logical reason for anyone to say that God wants us to "follow Him blindly." That's just simply not true.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this... you can't do anything about what? Your future? Where you spend eternity? You absolutely can easily do something about that. And the solution isn't to "follow God blindly."
     
    Roady likes this.
  6. Are you equating Christianity with Islam? Because thats ridiculous. The middle East is essentially founded on Islam, and they have tons of issues. America was founded on Christianity, and is considered one of the greatest countries in the world. Or at least it was in the past, not sure if it still is. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
     
    truthseeker17 likes this.

  7. This sums it up better than me. Its subtitled in spanish for those who speak it.

     

  8. Your ignorance of history is a bit alarming, Christianity belongs to the three Abrahamic religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, the old testament is shared by all three, the new testament belongs to Christianity and the Qu'ran to Muslims.

    Christianity was not founded by love and compassion, it was with blood, death and suffering.

    Have you not heard of the crusades, witch burnings and the inquisition?

    Christianity today is the result of a nation with separation of church and state (Founded by men who opposed religion), when the church had power there was violence, the same way the middle east is a theocracy, the exact same damn thing.

    Seriously...don't try to bullshit anyone here, they are all the same.
     
  9. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

    165
    1,358
    123
    You do see the sun, the earth, the moon, the universe, the animals. All these creatures in such a perfect order following God's command obediently. You do see the perfection in these things and many others. Don't you ask yourself why this works? ... Please don't remind the how. I know the how however the why nobody can explain me. What was before the freaking big bang? How can nothing turn into something? It doesn't make any sense. What is the chance that this is all is created by just merely a "accident"?

    Since the beginning of mankind there is this idea of God. There are 2 possibilities;
    Men are like children and afraid and wants to "feel" protected so thats why they came up with this idea of God. They wil feel protected.
    There is actually a chance that there is a God.

    The first theory which is believed by many intellectual minds is completely ridiculous. I will explain it briefly;
    Men doesn't like commands and definitily not the idea of "strict" following a religion.
    If religion was men made then there wouldn't be these things involved in religion. Couple of these things is, Obedient to God, Fear God, Listen and obey without questioning God. These things are most hateful to men... people like you are examplary proof for this. If it was men made religion go to india and you wil see how it would like to be. No offense to the indian religion but some men there have taken themselves for Gods.

    There is actually a chance that there is a God.
    What if there is actually a God. Intellectual beings love chance right? What if there is a God, in this case then you should be searching for Him. What is He like? What does He want from me? Where am I from? Where is my destination?
    All these answers and more should be then clarified and answered by Him. This is not my gurantee but His. If you search with a open heart.

    Your second point about the bible. Why don't you point me one case in a court where one person has faced injustice from person 2, and the court somehow didn't cause loss to person 2 and somehow didn't cause benefit to person 1?

    Your third point about wars in the middle east.
    For your information, World War 1 wasn't a religious war, was it? What about World War 2? What about the Cold War? and the Vietnam War? The nuclear bomb wasn't dropped by some backwards religious scholar? Millions, millions have died, do you know that? Do you actually care about that since you believe in humanity? How can you then forget this?
    Compare that to the middle east and the middle east is nothing. If I was you, I would worry more about the russia - america dilemma then the middle east.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  10. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

    165
    1,358
    123
    Every country has some issues. The issues of the middle east got worse after America intervened.. America truly is great in invading countries, killing their so called "terrorist" leaders and looting their recources. Have you seen what America did to Iraq? liberation ? Lol
    What America did to Libya? the situation of Libya, where young people got all the expenses for their marriage, house and other things funded to the situation right now, post war? What about Afghanistan? oh ofcourse that was just a revenge of 9/11... you believe it yourself? Some dessert people did that ? LOL the proof for that? oh their passports were suddunly found by some stranger. Yeah ofcourse lol

    The proof from wiki"The passport of Satam al-Suqami was reportedly recovered "a few blocks from where the World Trade Center's twin towers once stood";[25][26] a passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the towers collapsed. The passports of two other hijackers, Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al-Ghamdi, were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines Flight 93 in Pennsylvania, and a fourth passport, that of Abdulaziz al-Omari was recovered from luggage that did not make it onto American Airlines Flight 11.[27]

    I have nothing against the people of America it's just the government ain't doing stuff which is based upon Christianity
     
  11. """You do see the sun, the earth, the moon, the universe, the animals. All these creatures in such a perfect order following God's command obediently. You do see the perfection in these things and many others. Don't you ask yourself why this works? ... Please don't remind the how. I know the how however the why nobody can explain me. What was before the freaking big bang? How can nothing turn into something? It doesn't make any sense. What is the chance that this is all is created by just merely a "accident"?"""""

    Just because we don't fully understand something it doesn't mean it doesn't have a logical explanation. The same way if you look at a phone, you don't really know how it works, all you know is that with a press of a button you can speak with someone thousands of miles away, yet it has a simple explanation. Just like Occam's razor. The universe can be explained, we just don't have all the answers yet, but we do know a lot more than when people wrote that bible of yours.



    """"Since the beginning of mankind there is this idea of God. There are 2 possibilities;
    Men are like children and afraid and wants to "feel" protected so thats why they came up with this idea of God. They wil feel protected."""""

    God of the gaps is what gave birth to god, man's ignorance.


    """"""The first theory which is believed by many intellectual minds is completely ridiculous. I will explain it briefly;
    Men doesn't like commands and definitily not the idea of "strict" following a religion.
    If religion was men made then there wouldn't be these things involved in religion. Couple of these things is, Obedient to God, Fear God, Listen and obey without questioning God. These things are most hateful to men... people like you are examplary proof for this. If it was men made religion go to india and you wil see how it would like to be. No offense to the indian religion but some men there have taken themselves for Gods.""""""""

    Uhhh no,

    Men create systems from which you can control the massess, they still do it to this day. Humans are simply divided by leaders and followers, pastors and sheep. Sheep want to be lead, they want to be told what to do because its easier to follow rules than to make up your own, this is why some mwn preffer to work for a company their whole lives and never strive to build their own company, yet others build their empires and become the 1%. Most humans are sheep, which is why sometimes we hear of a sect where people follow and worship a guy who claims he's Jesus. And end up drinking poison.

    """"""What if there is actually a God. Intellectual beings love chance right? What if there is a God, in this case then you should be searching for Him. What is He like? What does He want from me? Where am I from? Where is my destination?
    All these answers and more should be then clarified and answered by Him. This is not my gurantee but His. If you search with a open heart."""""""

    If there is a god and he wanted to be known he wouldn't have revealed himself to one race in the middle east instructing them to write books that contradict themselves to create the most divisive and most violent set of religions on the planet. I think he would simply make his existence obvious and even provable by science.


    """""Your second point about the bible. Why don't you point me one case in a court where one person has faced injustice from person 2, and the court somehow didn't cause loss to person 2 and somehow didn't cause benefit to person 1?"""""

    lol you can't find one simple lovey dovey story without death suffering or blood can't you?


    """"""Your third point about wars in the middle east.
    For your information, World War 1 wasn't a religious war, was it? What about World War 2? What about the Cold War? and the Vietnam War? The nuclear bomb wasn't dropped by some backwards religious scholar? Millions, millions have died, do you know that? Do you actually care about that since you believe in humanity? How can you then forget this?
    Compare that to the middle east and the middle east is nothing. If I was you, I would worry more about the russia - america dilemma then the middle east.""""

    There are two kinds of wars, religious wars and wars for resources. One war ends and the other goes on forever, guess which one still goes on to this day and has bern going for thousands of years none stop? You guessed it! Religion.
     
  12. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

    165
    1,358
    123
    Buddy we do have all the answers ... just check the bible, torah or quran. Btw we don't have to know fully how iphone functions. However it is essential to know that iphone is made by Apple. So we can get help, guidence or even understand it better.

    Lol I don't remember when it was the last time I heard some christian died or drinking posion? but turn the CNN on and you wil find most celebraties and non christians dying for posion( alcohol, depression, drugs?)

    Science doesn't contradict a God, its the humans who do that. Science just show how perfect the creation is which gives a reference to God. Books don't contradict, its your understanding. If you have not fully knowledge of how iphone works you might find it contradicting mate.

    Lol nor did you find any simple lovery dovery(what the hell it might be) case of a court without some loss or benefit, did you?

    The wars on recources are still the ones which truley destroys us. We survived the wars of religion. WW3, with nuclear weapons. I am not sure if we will survive that tho? You are running from a bee towars a Lion..
     
  13. Following this thread, I think we can just leaning one thing:

    Matt 7
    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
     
    Spiff and Deleted Account like this.
  14. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    These arguments are quite comical in nature. I don't understand what people hope to achieve by arguing with each other in these long dreaded posts... You guy's aren't going to convince one another.

    The atheist will remain an atheist and the theist will remain a theist... it's simple a waste of time throwing word vomit at each other in the hopes of proving ourselves to be right. The matter of fact is, none of us without a doubt know if God truly does exist or not, let alone if the Christian God is the true God... This isn't something that's discovered with belittling arguments. If someone really wants to know, they have to do the research themselves without any false premise or biased opinions.

    Simply brushing off the idea of God, just because he doesn't fit with your own understanding and worldview is simple ignorance... The question of God is something to be taken with absolute seriousness... the conclusion which you formulate should be done with %100 certainty and due diligence as to avoid regret.

    Live your life questioning everything! even yourself!
     
    Deleted Account and RainbowShell like this.
  15. This will be my last post here cause I think this thread has run its course long enough to point of pointlessness.

    I know personally God is real this is a fact to me but this is how I perceive the world around me, people aren't sharing my body and the experiences I had in my life so how could they possibly understand my view. Reason I don't like to argue is cause I made my mind up I live with the facts I have seen, same as people who have made their mind up that God is not real, Trying to preach to each other the reasons or facts that we have for God being real or not will be pointless cause we all perceive the world differently and why preach to ears that are not willing to listen, when we have made our minds up so it becomes a part of our being the arguments are pointless.

    I can understand if someone is being passionate about their beliefs, but forcing em onto someone else with the fact that we perceive to be the truth wont work if people are not willing to listen.
     
    SolitaryScribe likes this.
  16. I'm very aware of that, thank you, but Muslims do not have even close to the same beliefs as Christianity. And while people say they believe in "the same God" as Christians, that just simply isn't true, considering they completely reject the sovereignty of Jesus, and Jesus is a part of the Godhead. Same goes for Jews.

    When did I say Christianity was founded by love and compassion?

    No, they are absolutely not even close to the same thing. And you call me ignorant. :rolleyes: whatever, you clearly don't have any interest in actually learning anything here, so I'm not going to continue to waste my breath.
     
    Roady likes this.
  17. Yes, I'm well aware that America has issues too, thank you. I have about zero ounces of "American pride" in me. I do not want to get into a debate over whether or not America is great, but it is certainly NOT the same as the middle East. I think we can all clearly see which is worse in that comparison. The only reason I even brought that up is because he was pointing to problems in the middle East and blaming Christianity for them, as if Christianity and Islam are the same thing, which is insane. Christianity doesn't oppress women and tell men and women they aren't allowed to be friends with each other and force women to cover themsleves in public and condone abuse of women for not obeying their husbands, for driving, for being raped, etc., and it certainly doesn't make claims like "you aren't a real Christian unless you murder people for God." They are vastly different religions, and anyone who claims otherwise has no idea what they're talking about.
     
    truthseeker17 and Roady like this.
  18. That's true, it does have a logical explanation. And that logical explanation is that someone created it.

    Actually, there are several scientific truths written about in the Bible long before we discovered them.



    You mean like by creating an entire universe that is clearly and logically impossible to exist without a creator? Perhaps by giving us humans a logical, intelligent, reasoning brain to be able to clearly see that the world around us can't possibly exist by chance, because nothing this intricate in the history of the world has ever existed on its own, without being created?

    Of course we can. So can you, if you took the time to actually look yourself. Why should I spend my entire morning researching for you something that you're perfectly capable of researching yourself, especially given that you have no interest in actually listening and changing your mind? Maybe if I get some spare time today, I'll take on that task, but I think not. I'll leave that to your very capable hands, since you obviously know how to read.
     
    Roady likes this.
  19. Sometimes you have to engage conversation with a person before you can determine they aren't worth engaging. If I assumed every religious discussion was pointless, then I wouldn't have engaged @Vinum Sabbathi, and we both would have missed out on a good, fruitful, and respectful conversation.

    And then you get the ones that aren't interested in actually listening, but only want to prove themsleves right. Sometimes it takes a bit of time before you realize they aren't actually interested in what you have to say and just want to argue. At that point, yes, it's probably time to walk away.

    However, when it comes to the written word, on the internet, this conversation isn't just about the two individuals having it. Perhaps someone reading will get something out of what you have to say, even if the person you're engaging doesn't.
     
    Deleted Account and Roady like this.
  20. (That's true, it does have a logical explanation. And that logical explanation is that someone created it.)

    Yeah its logical to assume there is a being that creates things with magic. lol


    (Actually, there are several scientific truths written about in the Bible long before we discovered them.)

    No there aren't, modern science was born after Galileo, and Christians have change meanings of the bible to try and match them with science, for instance, the world was not created in 7 days, the earth in the bible is flat, seizures caused by brain diseases were called demonic possessions, etc.


    (You mean like by creating an entire universe that is clearly and logically impossible to exist without a creator?)

    You are making an assertion based on nothing, how do you know the universe couldn't come to be without a creator? What do you know that the whole scientific community doesn't know? They oughta five you a nobel prize for such ultimate knowledge.


    (Perhaps by giving us humans a logical, intelligent, reasoning brain to be able to clearly see that the world around us can't possibly exist by chance, because nothing this intricate in the history of the world has ever existed on its own, without being created?)

    All things exist as an effect of something that previously existed. A chair can be made of wood, and wood comes from trees. For all we know the universe could be infinite, could have come from a singularity. You religious people claim it came from magic, and thats bullshit.


    (Of course we can. So can you, if you took the time to actually look yourself. Why should I spend my entire morning researching for you something that you're perfectly capable of researching yourself, especially given that you have no interest in actually listening and changing your mind? Maybe if I get some spare time today, I'll take on that task, but I think not. I'll leave that to your very capable hands, since you obviously know how to read.)

    I outgrew god the same way I outgrew Santa Clause, if you want me to believe in magic you'd best show me something, but then you wouldn't have faith now would you? Faith is basically "Seeing is not belueving, Believing is seeing!"

    Words from a Santa Clause movie.
     

Share This Page