The Victim Role

So as I understand it, you're suggesting that the partner holds partial responsibility for the problem? Or are you suggesting that the partner should stop bemoaning their fate and get on with improving their own goals? In not very clear on the point you're trying to make but given that you're using the 'playing the victim' line, I guess you're suggesting that there is blame to be had on both sides for the breakdown of a relationship.

While in a lot of cases this is true, you can't possibly think it's true for a pmo partner. Most of us had no idea what was going on until it was too late. Some of us still don't even know what's going on. From my own exoerience, I'm not by any means suggesting I'm perfect. However when it comes to my husband's problems, I feel like I have very little to feel ashamed of there. I support when needed and withdraw when needed. I live my own life. I persue my own goals. As do many of the women on here.

The problem with a lot of opinions that are shared on this forum, is that men have very different views to women it seems. So many men on here blame their partner. "She won't give me sex" "women all play games in relationships" etc etc. The bottom line is, we all make our own choices. Ultimately, it is nobody's fault you behave a certain way or do certain things. Yes people have issues with childhood bad experiences. But at some point you have to grow up and face the fact that our choices are our own. The fact that a lot of partners of pmo addicts choose to stay and support their partners through difficult times does not make them a victim. In fact, the women on here are some of the strongest people I've met. That being said, I do think the pmo partner gets an especially raw deal (in fact a partner of someone with any addiction) because it boils down to lies, secrets, selfish behaviour and unreliability. Of I can't trust my partner to do what he says he'll do, how can I stay with him? Have children with him? Rely on him when I suffer bereavement or trauma?

Sorry if that wasn't the point you were trying to make.

 

Congrats r2k on over 400 days! Brilliant work.

There is a lot of info in your post and I am not sure that I fully understand the point you are trying to make.

I don't agree with you that the addicts, in essence, outgrow the partners (if I understand your point correctly). I think your premise is based on a false argument. My opinion is that you can't view a relationship as a constant. People and circumstances change, the relationship adapts and evolves with the individual's changes. No one is the same in their 40's as they were in their 20's.

I agree with what @DireMerl said, the women on here that I have read about are working on themselves, they are working on improving their lives, they have given their partners ultimatums to change or they will move on without the addict. The partners may not meditate, but there is a lot more to personal growth than a few ohms.

I read that for some addicts, such as heroin, their emotional maturity stops developing at the age that the addiction takes over. Not sure if this is true for porn addiction. Maybe it is another angle to consider, and perhaps the huge personal growth done through recovery is just the addict catching up to where they should be rather than something extraordinary and profound? Not sure if that is true but it gives another perspective.

There does come a point where the partner needs to forgive the addict to allow themselves and the relationship to move forward. Part of that involves giving up being a victim and letting go of the negatives including resentment. At what point this occurs - well, I'm not sure. I'm not at that stage yet, or more to the point, my husband is not at the stage he is ready to hear it yet. I don't think I am "playing the victim" as such, and I have have not seen partners here play that card. I do think they are critically wounded by this addiction, and the actions of their partners, and that should not be overlooked. Part of the healing process is for addicts, and for the partner to be able to forgive, is to really understand exactly what they have done to their partners, something that is virtually impossible to comprehend without the self entitlement and empathy first being addressed. The partners have endured a lot. They did not cause this, the actions of their partner did, but all of the hurt is theirs. It takes a very strong person to endure this.

The bottom line is, we love our partners, warts and all. We want them to change, to evolve and to be better people. Our relationship will change, it has to, and we need to establish a new normal.

Not sure if I have responded to all the points you are trying to make. Perhaps you could clarify if I didn't understand it properly and we can discuss further.

 

No, it was a good idea to post here. This is the relationship section and all are welcome. As for what could go wrong, let's find out!

One of the things that you touched on as a partner is that it is passive. We give ultimatums and then sit back and wait for changes in our partners. It is frustrating to be in that position as many of us what to do something to change our circumstances. It wasn't us that caused the issues but we are the ones who deal with the fall out. If you have suggestions in terms of how to transform this into an active role, I'm all ears.

Playing the victim seems to have some negative connotations. Like the person is milking that status for their advantage. This may be true in some relationships but I also think that the majority are true victims.

Forgiveness is what transform a partner from a victim to a survivor. Forgiveness is something that takes much longer to occur than any of us thought it would. It comes in waves and requires deliberate thought to achieve.

In terms of the change in the dynamics of the relationship, well I am of the opinion that like physics, the only constant thing is change. The addict will (hopefully) grow enormously in this time, and in a much more subtle way, so does the partner. I saw someone say on this forum that personal growth happen when we are outside our comfort zone. Can't remember who it was but i think that is brilliant. In my situation, I feel that it is that my husband was not able to adjust to changes in our lives and our relationship that was at the root of his issues. He was not able to face the new reality and so he ran away to the screen to avoid facing these changes.

From a partners point of view, some of the changes that occur are clearly negatives and it is also adjusting to these. For me, it is the realization that there will never be 100% trust in our relationship like there was before. There will always be fears and doubts. Does this make me a perpetual victim - I hope not.

Interested to hear what you think of the above.

 

That seems like a sad existence. It sounds to me like you don't believe in love. Or think of it As logical in a world primarily ruled by survival insticts. While this can be said from a logical standpoint, I find that a depressing outlook. Essentially we're all doomed. We die alone. Yes. Ok. True. However love isn't really something that can be defined that way. It's wanting to make someone happy. It's wanting to share in that happiness. It can't really be explained. Maybe the relationship you had with your father have you a cynical outlook on love. Do you have children of your own?

You liken life to a battlefield. Battles and wars are a microcosm. That situation can't be applied to normal existence. Soldiers are stripped down to basic survival instincts. It doesn't contain any of the emotions that day to day life does. Empathy, compassion, kindness, forgivness, love. None of those emotions have any place in war. How can they? People couldn't fight and kill each other if they felt those things.

Do you consider yourself happy? Do you think that you enjoy life? Or are you just muddling through? Forgive me for saying that I feel a lot of negative emotions from you. I wonder if you've really thought about the roots of your apathy?

 

I just want to post that in here....

I won't join a faction in this fight...It's called the sex-starved marriage. One of the smartest video I seen lately. Right to the point.



The reality is: Often, both hubby and wifey have their share of responsibility in the sex life. When you are sex-starved, you might need other sources or satisfaction...porn being the easiest. Both in the couple might have their head in the sand.

 

Thanks ikindaknew for posting that. So amazing to have my relationship and experience so "seen" by the therapist in the video.

It's great to hear from some partners of those struggling- or maybe not struggling but experiencing, these addictive behaviors. And then we struggle as a couple in whatever way with the effects of the responses to the actions which are responses and on and on. I'm blessed by a partner who is really receptive and open. I'm very embarrassed by my actions and so haven't been completely honest. Shame and secrecy, but also trying to take care of my sexual needs on my own. As she says in the video you can only be rejected so much and you stop asking with an open heart. It hurts to much.

I'm going to send the link to my partner and maybe we can have a new beginning.

 

First, yeah, this is an excellent TED talk. @i_wanna_get_better1 what do think?

Second, you will note @Ikindaknew no where in this talk does she suggest that a partner "might need other sources" for satisfaction. She says you have to try harder to find out the best way to connect with your partner. Do the work. There's no "easy" button here. Find out what inspires your partner to feel connected. And I like the point she made that sometimes arousal and desire are reversed. But the point remains that we have to value our partners experience and work hard to make life good for EACH OTHER. Not seeking to just scratch our own itch. It's vital to the human experience and our emotional and physical health that we are connected to another human being. Without that connection, we are not our best selves. It's worth the work to forge and maintain those connections!

 

I second that!
This is the goal to satisfy each other, develop each other and cover each other in all things of life. It's like being "fire team partners" (military term).

But the key element in this talk is that the order of sex escalation (1-desire, 2-arousal and 3-Orgasm) has changed to Arousal first, then desire, then orgasm. So, both partners have to understand that the "I don't feel like it, I got a headache, I got worries at work, I got financial worries, not tonight,etc" are all getting in the way of what the sexologist was tryin to say.

She said DO IT, cause you'll soon remember that you like it.

In all cases, my desire for PMO is pretty low right now, doing good. Trying to slowly but surely "rewire" my brain. I don't want to alienate my wife, I want to do it all with her.

APPETITE COMES WITH EATING

 

This is advice most sexual therapists or experts would give you. The more sex you have, the more you want. They also say that you should pause and think before automatically saying no. Sometimes just saying no straight away becomes habit. If you examine your feelings for a moment, you might find you're actually open to the idea. Even if it's just a bit of 'playtime' it brings you closer and re forms the bond.